Heath AA-1600 amplifier problem

Hi all,

I'm trying to fix an old Heath amp, the AA-1600. One day, it blew up one end stage, and as the original PNP transistors 2N6609 are no longer available here, I replaced the transistors with MJ15022/MJ15023 pairs. Further investigation revealed that all four(!) 4K7/2W resistors (R728/R729) were overcooked, and had resistances between 80K and infinite. All other components seemed fine, so I thought I had the problem nailed.

For testing, I put a 150W halogen lamp in series with the mains supply, and everything still went fine. The end stage bias current seemed completely stable, the amp operated on nearly its full mains voltage, and both end stages behaved identical, both on low and high frequencies. Of course, the supply voltage dropped when I applied a load on the output, but even then, I could find no difference between both end stages. They delivered 40W each without a problem before the mains voltage dropped too much for the amp to function properly.

Then I hooked up the amp to the 'hard' mains voltage (without a series lamp), and still all seemed well. The end stage bias current was fine and stable, and both end stages delivered the same signal without a load connected.

But alas, with an 8 ohm dummy load connected, the very same end stage fried instantly as the output power got past a few watts. I was actually monitoring the oscilloscope and volt meters when it happened, and there was no warning sign whatsoever. No sudden oscillation, no DC voltage drift, nothing at all. One second the amp worked fine, an instant later an end stage transistor shorted out, blowing the fuses. :-(

So before I replace the end stage transistors once again, I'd like to see if anyone here has a clue ... I considered replacing both driver transistors as well (Q711/Q712), but based on the original type numbers (F-317-B respectively F-417-B), I can't find any suitable replacements.

A somewhat low-quality schematic diagram can be found here:

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Does anyone have an idea what might be the problem? Or how I could trace down the problem without blowing yet another set of end stage transistors? I'm particularly puzzled by the fact that the wretched thing only blows up when loaded and at the same time connected to the 'hard' mains voltage (230V AC). Even with a low-ohm load in series, the amp behaves just fine ...

Thanks in advance,

Richard Rasker

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Reply to
Richard Rasker
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Hi Richard...

Happens that I still have the whole manual for the aa-1640, but no idea at all how much it differs from the 1600. I'm also on the other side of the puddle (Canada), though I doubt that would make much difference other than to the power transformer.

If you think it might be similar enough to help, I'll be happy to scan a few pages for you.

Take care.

Ken

Reply to
Ken Weitzel

Richard Rasker wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@linetec.nl:

Did you measure any DC at the output?

Reply to
Jim Land

Op Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:02:55 +0000, schreef Ken Weitzel:

[snip end stage keeps blowing up]

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Thank you for the kind offer, but I found someone here willing to copy & send me the complete manual - although he said that it probably won't give more clues as to what goes wrong. Also, I'm quite experienced in these matters myself (I very rarely have to give up on something like this), and the schematic is simple enough. I just hoped that someone here would recognize these symptoms and tell me the "golden clue"; from searching the Internet I already found that the AA-1600 almost never breaks in any serious way, so that wasn't succesful either.

Thanks again all the same, regards,

Richard Rasker

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Reply to
Richard Rasker

Op Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:24:09 +0000, schreef Jim Land:

Both end stages produced a near identical DC voltage of 0.135 volts (one was 0.132 volts, the other 0.136 volts), which seems harmless enough. As far as I could see, this voltage didn't drift with time, temperature, or load until the amp broke down.

Richard Rasker

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Linetec Translation and Technology Services

http://www.linetec.nl/
Reply to
Richard Rasker

Suspect the bias diodes. It isn't uncommon to get a bad internal connection in one. Replace them, even if you have to fabricate your own from discrete parts, don't believe a meter.

To check the diodes, it helps to have some current flowing ~100 ma and then apply heat and cool to them. The voltage change should be smooth with temperature.

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Any number of places where a bad solder joint can also cause this problem.

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Hi Richard,

I have an have an AR-1650 Receiver that I have the amplifiers removed from to troubleshoot. I pumped the preamp into a Carver power amplifier and the repair slid down my priority list. It has a similar blown output, so I'm interested in your plight and what you find.

I started capturing the power amp schematic into Electronics Workbench MultiSim 9 to start playing with updated replacement components and was testing the model when I quit. I had been reading Randy Sloan's amplifier book and thought I would learn from it. I want to get back to it as time allows.

I would be willing to share the model, although I don't know if their trial software is crippled beyond the point that it is useful. I have a license for the software. (if time->no tools and if tools->no time, seems always the way).

I don't know the specifics of your amplifier, but this was 125 per channel and had a huge power and very heavy linear power supply. The Carver is 225 watts per channel and weighs a fraction of what only the transformer weighs. I would like to understand that. I wonder if the Carver is a 'switcher'.

Good Luck!

Regards, Jim Shedden

Reply to
james.shedden

Ditto re: the diodes. Also, there has been a number of fake, counterfeit transistors sold in recent years. If your MJ series did not come directly from Motorola, Onsemi, or B&D Enterprises they could be fakes. You can Google the topic of counterfeit transistors for an eye-opener. I've had exactly this happen. New parts with NO other circuit problems, fail within minutes when playing into a load.

Mark Z.

Reply to
Mark D. Zacharias

Op Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:22:38 +0000, schreef Mark D. Zacharias:

I have found a source for more suitable power transistors (the recommended

2N3773/2N6609), and I hope to receive a set of these in de mail today. Also, I'll check the diode combo again for unusual current/temperature drift, although I couldn't find anything wrong during previous measuerements.

The trouble is that the amp seems perfectly fine when operating at 90% of the normal mains voltage. Only when it's hooked up to the full 230 volts AC, trouble hits almost instantly.

But first I think I'll whip up a sort of electronic fuse to completely detach the end stage from the power supply as soon as the voltage of NPN emitter relative to the PNP emitter exceeds a few volts (i.e. the bias current exceeds 5 amps). This way, I should be able to provoke the failure without having to spend $15 in transistors and 15 minutes worth of work every single time. This little tool is something I've been planning to build for some time anyway, and this is as good an occasion as any to build it.

Thanks for your reply and suggestions (and the others too, of course); I'll let you know if I find the cause.

Richard Rasker

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Linetec Translation and Technology Services

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Reply to
Richard Rasker

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