Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?

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I am having drain pump failure on an LG washer dryer. I cant quite tie it d
own but this is an INCREDIBLY badly designed unit. LG actually forgot to in
clude a lint filter in it so the whole thing has to be taken apart every fe
w years so that lint can be cleared out of every tiny crevasse inside the u
nit!

I pulled the drain filter out and found a coin and a tiny credit card in th
ere.  But not much else, and the filter is cone shaped so I am wondering if
 this is normal or is this conical filter is just another pathetically bad  
LG idea?  

Can anything seriously get past those conical shaped drain filters, and blo
ck the impeller behind the cone?

I CAN put my finger on the impeller and feel the normal pressure as I try t
o move between quadrants, which I have heard described as the acid test of  
whether your pump has failed or not.  But I dont know whether feeling this  
pressure necessarily means that the pump hasn't failed?  So I am wondering  
whether anything CAN get past the conical filter?  Or is letting things get
 past this filter and block the drain pipes normal for this LG design becau
se LG design is so lousy, - even where the the pump itself is working? (as  
an aside, LG design is so bad that they have had to withdraw all LG tech su
pport and replace it with guys at the end of the phone who read from script
s, telling users to get everything repaired, whatever the tech support ques
tion!)

Or does the buszing/grinding noise coming from the drain pump trump everyth
ing else and mean, simply put, that the pump has failed?

Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
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All LG ideas are bad, sort of like their products.
  
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You already said the pump failed. What's the question here?

Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?

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'cos everyone is trying to convince me that buzzing/grinding is a sign that
 the pump is OK but blocked, -  the problem might be a blockage behind the  
pump which would stay there after pump replacement. Also, there is a video  
out there which says that a failed pump has an impeller which moves freely.
 And that there being pressure between quadrants as you turn the impeller i
s a sign that the pump is actually OK.

But YOUR point is more valid. If the pump starts to buzz/grind for anything
 more than a few seconds and water stops being pumped through, the game is  
up!  Especially if there really isnt much in the filter area and I can move
 the impeller between quadrants, indicating that no BLOCKAGE is stopping th
e impeller from moving.

Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
An LG washer pump is about $25. The entire assembly may be had for $60 or l
ess. Takes about an hour to replace - ask me how I know that. As compared t
o +/- $700 for a new machine, or a service-call of about $150 + parts. No s
pecial tools required, and at least half-a-dozen YouTube tutorials on how-t
o.  

These pumps fail from:

a) Pump impeller blockage - takes a lot to get to that, but it is possible  
if the drain sump is never cleaned.
b) Running too much suction - far more common. Clean the sump! Regularly.
c) Age - these are cheap little things. And very easily replaced.  

If you were to direct all that energy expressed as anger at addressing the  
actual cause, then fixing the cause, your life would be better.  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?

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e actual cause, then fixing the cause, your life would be better.  


Any anger only arises as a result of having to spend so much time and money
 on a machine which is so badly designed that it WILL fail again within 2-3
 years and need an extraordinary amount of work cleaning it out!

I have seen the videos and the work for this pump looks easy but is VERY ex
tended. Also, there is a metal ring around the door seal which looks like a
 real pig to re-fit! Even for me, where i get a real rush out of taking int
ricate things which dont work apart and fixing them!


Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
I keep a pair of hollow-nose slip-joint pliers that manages that ring very  
nicely (among many other uses). I have no idea of the technical name of tha
t plier, but it does the trick.  

As I previously noted, took me about an hour from start-to-finish. But I ha
d good light and lots of room.  

The part that gripes me about the older LG machines is that they rust, badl
y. After about 2015 or so, they seem to have fixed that. And the reconditio
ned unit that we replaced a bit ago cost us about $0.14 per load (machine o
nly) or so, so it owed us nothing at all. Were it not for the rust, I proba
bly would have done the necessary repairs....

Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
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I admit to not fixing dish washers. I do deal with other machinery with  
similar sized centrifugal pumps. Blockage seems to be the #1 problem. It  
doesn't really take much to stop a small pump either. All it takes is a  
piece of cellophane or tape to really mess things up. Complete blockage  
isn't needed. I've fished out junk with wires and it's not uncommonon to  
have to completely disassemble the wet side of even primo ceramic shaft,  
magnetic drive Iwaki pumps to fish out trash in system.  

The motor spinning at all is a good sign though. Seized motors burn out  
real fast, and a burned out motor doesn't usually buzz or do anything.

Can you remove the pump and check the entire path the water takes?



Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
As with many other products, modern residential washers need maintenance on
 a fairly regular basis. We have a 15 year old LG front-loader at our summe
r house, we just replaced our 12 year old (purchased reconditioned) LG at o
ur main house. We replaced it because the fill valve and the drain valve fa
iled together, and the parts and time involved for a machine that heavily u
sed (7+ loads per week) mitigated towards a new unit that was more efficien
t, and has a few more features.  

At the beginning of each quarter at home, we clean the drain sump. Takes te
n (10) minutes at the outside. And we have pulled all sorts of *stuff* out  
of it. At the summer house, we do it at the end of each season as part of t
he winterizing process. That one gets, perhaps, one load per week.  

Unlike the bad old days, when a washer used 40 gallons of water, and lasted
 very nearly forever if not seriously abused, a modern washer will use mayb
e 5 gallons of water, and needs a bit of care and feeding, or it will not l
ast very long at all. That is not the fault of the device, but of the user  
not understanding their obligations towards achieve that efficiency.

As John Muir wrote about VWs - "Come to kindly terms with your ass, for it  
bears you.".   Come to terms with your machine and it will treat you well.
  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
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I call bullshit on this. While folks on usenet, in a repair group can  
probably figure out preventative maintenance it's not listed in any  
consumer product manual. There's no way LG user manual mentions anything  
other than don't run a pump dry and contact a service professional for  
anything else. modern appliances are pure junk, plain and simple. My  
favorite is clogged codensate lines on fridges, moldy side load  
washing machines and the $400 parts and labor "computer board" for  
anything else.

1) it's a tube, operated by gravity. Manufacturers somehow mess this up,  
it has to be on purpose.

2) wow, a big old V shaped gasket might trap water. Sure, I'll run two  
   loads, the second with vinegar or bleach to keep the machine from  
   rotting. Really saves water now, right?

There really isn't much maintenance the end user can perform on  
appliances these days.

Remember when the only thing to go out on a stove was the oven light and  
hot element ignitor, maybe once every 10 years? I've seen multiple stove  
failures that resulted in the entire unit being scrapped due to electronic  
problems. It's rediculous. Stoves don't need maintenance, don't have pumps  
and still fail at a very high rate due to unnecessary electronics and  
awful design practives what serve to only rip off the consumer.

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Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
Warning: This is a bit of a rant....  

I would not accuse you of being a Luddite, but I do question your understan
ding of basic care-and-feeding of appliances. You admit to doing tear-down  
maintenance of a microwave oven (surely not in any operations manual), yet  
will not admit to the most basic understanding of the car-and-feeding of ot
her, larger appliances.  

Sure, our range has as much computing power as the Space Shuttle ((but so d
id the Commodore VIC20), and as such probably should be on a circuit protec
ted by a surge-suppressor (and it is). It is now 12 years old and doing fin
e. The oven gets used very nearly every day, so it does need cleaning (main
tenance), and every so often, beyond just the self-clean feature - and that
 is not in any manual either.  

As to the clothes washer - cleaning the sump quarterly is no big deal, is i
t? If the alternative is replacing the pump, probably annually (with heavy  
use)? Now:  

a) The typical old-style top-loader used between 35 and 45 gallons of water
 per full load. The average washer is used 400 times per year (family of fo
ur(4)). Splitting the difference, that is 16,000 gallons of water per year.
 That is 44 gallons per day, just for washing clothes. Which is, typically,
 also heated at least in part.  
b) The typical old-style top-loader leaves between one and two gallons of w
ater behind in a full load. Which must be dried, either mechanically or on  
a clothes line. How many here use a clothes line? For everything?  
c) Our LG uses five (5) gallons of water on the heavy-duty cycle, and seven
 (7) if we use a pre-rinse (never needed to, at least so far). Giving it a  
8:1 advantage over the top-loader. and a 3:1 advantage over even the most e
fficient modern top-loader. Making that occasional vinegar douche not so ho
rrible - well, we use chlorine bleach often enough that the vinegar is rare
ly needed.  

At our summer house, where we both make and dispose of our water on-site, a
nd we are on a Class A trout-stream, water consumption is a huge factor. Ju
st below functionality, but above first-cost and even maintenance - althoug
h so far, that has been minimal. We are also exceedingly careful of the mat
erials we use such as soaps and detergents.  

(Definition of Class A Waters:
Streams that support a population of naturally produced trout of sufficient
 size and abundance to support a long-term and rewarding sport fishery.
Management:
Natural reproduction, wild populations with no stocking)  

And learning what works over the last 30 years upstate has translated into  
choices we make "at home" to keep to a more gentle footprint - OK, not the  
"American Way" but so what?  

It is a matter of choices made. But it does gripe me when individuals blame
 the object rather than the caretaker of that object for its failure after  
years of negligence.  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
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I live in Chicago. We have too much fresh water (yeah, this is really a  
problem, lake michigan has record high water levels and the bike paths is  
getting splashed with water). I'm going to run the biggest, oldest most  
water using washing machine I can get my hands on. They clean better too,  
there's more space in the drum, you don't get everything all knotted up  
trying to save the last drops of the cheapest more infinite resource we  
have in the great lakes. LG appliances will be long shut down, sold,  
divested or whatever is hot long before the parts supply for even a  
kenmore washer dries up.

None of those asian appliances brands are meant to be serviced. They are  
meant to be thrown away, like a cell phone.





Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
Do you not comprehend that all you are doing is relocating that water from the fresh water system to the waste-water system? And if you are on municipal water and municipal sewer, you are paying handsomely for that privilege.  

I expect that you still use high-phosphate detergent as well. It *does* get things nice and clean, takes lots of water to do it, but nice and clean!  

(Not to mention algae blooms.   https://www.greatlakesnow.org/algal-blooms /)  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  

Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 7:36:57 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:
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Actually if you use lots of water you need hardly any soap.  Perhaps none.  


Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
Not to be snarky, but you do not wallow much in grease, do you?  No detergent under those conditions just spreads a very fine coating of grease on everything. True, though, there *is* less on the clothes thereby.  

I thought we had gotten away from pounding clothes with rocks streamside....  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  

Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
On 6/18/20 9:55 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:
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Arthur Clarke was right.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Apparently, this includes washing machines for some folks.


--  
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
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Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
Arthur C. Clarke's three laws of forecasting:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

All three "laws" fit this venue nicely.  

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA  

Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
On Thursday, June 18, 2020 at 10:55:12 AM UTC-4, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:
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gent under those conditions just spreads a very fine coating of grease on e
verything. True, though, there *is* less on the clothes thereby.  
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...  
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No, you're quite right, if our job or hobby involves heavily soiled clothes
 we need the right amount of soap.  Perhaps even in a climate where we swea
t a lot.

But for the average person with an indoor sedentary job, student, etc., who
 changes clothes on a daily basis, the clothes never get very soiled.  

Some years back there were these magic laundry balls, "bio ceramic," that w
ere supposed to work without soap.  When they were tested, they worked.  So
 that lab also tried washing without them, and that worked too.  There is p
robably enough soap residue on clothes to get several washes.  


Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
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Bingo. Less soap residue on your clothes too.

Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
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Nope. water here is really cheap. They don't even bother to meter it on  
most buildings. It's an all you can eat buffet. It's good water too, by  
the away.

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I add TSP to all loads of wash.

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plants are good, right?

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Re: Does anyone know how badly designed the conical LG washer/dryer drain filter unit is?
I have the other problem.  The washer just chews up the lint and spits it out.
that goes down the drain via a 2-tub laundry sink and about 20' of 60 year old galvanized pipe burried under the cement.

The lint catches about 20' out.    I got tired of that non-sense.

Especially when I spent a lot of time using the home depot auger in the wrong direction.  Mine was clockwise in, theirs was CCW in.

I made a very nice sock filter using mostly stock parts.  Once I had proof of concept, I borrowed a lathe and added some new parts and made the filter super easy to empty.  

Expensive, simple and stuff had to come from 3 different suppliers.

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