AT89S52 - PLCC vs DIP Package

All correct. It's down to what you prefer.Maybe the board space is limited,
so forcing the use of PLCC.

Can the AT89S51/2 and AT89C51/2 be programmed in either C or Assembly
Language , or can any language be used ? Most of the examples I find on the
net makes use of C which indicates to me that C might be more popular, or
maybe easier than Assembly Language

Regards

On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:46:05 +0200, "Lodewicus Maas"



Any language that has been crafted to the AT89C51/2 will work.

I don't know of a popular or semi-popular or even pretty rare micro
that can't be programmed in its own assembly language.  It doesn't
really take that long to write an assembler, usually, so most have
them and they are almost always free to use, as well.

With the 8031/2 CPU core, assemblers and compilers go a LONG WAY back.
My very first MCU design project where I designed everything on my own
(about 1982) was based on an Intel 80C32 (I still have a box of 100 of
them here) and used a freely available "table assembler" developed in
the State of Washington for people developing projects for those with
disabilities.  The assembler was free, symbolic, trivial to use and
worked quite well.

At the time, although I was quite familiar with C having used it
working on Unix v6 for years before, C outside of the Unix world was
still a bit of a rare bird then.  So a C compiler would have cost me
an arm and a leg and was out of the picture for this hobby app.  All
that has changed over the following decade (1980's) and beyond.  There
is everything from the 8052 BASIC that Intel released (I have several
incarnations archived, including the original manual in paperback form
here within reach right now) to C to just about anything else.  Good
time to be asking for something working on an 8031/2 core processor.
Probably the processor core with the most compiler/interpreter hours
poured into it, now.

Besides BASIC and regarding C, you can try out SDCC at no charge.
http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/

Atmel, at its own site here:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools.asp?family_id60%4

provides a ZIP file with include files you can use with SDCC (among
other compilers):
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/c51_include_files.zip

Here's something else:
http://chaokhun.kmitl.ac.th/~kswichit/easy1/easy.htm

And that's only a quick shot, quickly found on the web (which you are
perfectly capable of doing, yourself) from someone who has never used
SDCC with the Atmel AT89 series.  (I have some of their AT89 chips,
they just never were better than other options in a project by the
time I thought I might want to try them out.)

I have integrated the use of SDCC with SiLabs parts and their IDE,
though.  And it works just fine.

Regarding other languages, other than BASIC and C and C++, I'm sure
there will be a post about Forth.  Wait for it.

Jon

iphone?  original TI graphing calculator?

Sometimes the barriers aren't being able to compile the code, but
being able to load it onto the device... if there's an operating
system or an interpreter in the way, it may not be possible to run
native code unless you can find a way to break through that.

On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 08:01:00 -0700 (PDT), Chris Stratton



Never owned one.  But if I extracted the cpu from the environment, I
bet I could program it in assembly.

I didn't mean to suggest that people couldn't prevent the use of
assembly.  The old timesharing systems, like HP's 2000F BASIC, didn't
offer assembly either.  But the cpu (2116) was easily programmed in
assembly (machine code, at least) if you were sitting there at the
control panel.



Well, although you seem to have managed to misunderstand me or else
manufacture artificial circumstances to intentionally change my
meaning, I'm hoping no one else went that way with it.

Jon

I did not misunderstand you, but raised a point about the ongoing
validity of base assumptions.  Not everyone will always be able to
choose to code on evaluation or custom boards, they may instead have
to write for chips wrapped in products by equipment/device vendors who
may or may not be interested in letting third parties write bare metal
applications.  If you are always going to be in a position to think of
a "micro" as the actual IC, that's great... but it's not clear that
everyone will consistently be in such a position... something we
perhaps should generally be starting to worry about given the growing
market popularity of "programmable, but only in a sandbox, results
distributable only with approval" devices.

On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 10:04:41 -0700 (PDT), Chris Stratton



Sorry, Chris, but the OP wrote:

   "Can the AT89S51/2 and AT89C51/2 be programmed in either C or
    Assembly Language , or can any language be used ? Most of the
    examples I find on the net makes use of C which indicates to me
    that C might be more popular, or maybe easier than Assembly
    Language"

My answer was appropriate to the question.  I have no idea at all why
you care to add artificially manufactured conditions the OP almost
certainly wasn't asking about -- and certainly didn't express.

But feel free.  I will leave that to you.

Jon

Because while your answer was appropriate to the question, it was
explicitly stated as a general answer rather than one specific to the
context of the question.  I commented on areas where that generality
starts to break down in practice for popular programmable
microcomputing devices, if not in literal application to "micros".
Though I would bet that if we look hard enough, we can find a chip
that is by itself limited to processing some interpreted or sandboxed
scripting language.

Should the search fail, I could find a handy OTP device and create
one ;-)

Or I could just point to any microprogrammed machine with immutable
microcode...

On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:19:12 -0700 (PDT), Chris Stratton



I'll leave it to you, then.

Jon

You indeed misunderstood him.

EVERY micro can be programmes with assembly.

The Iphone and an TI Calculator are not micros. They are devices
containing micros. Get the micros out, and programm them in asm.

There have been some micros that were essentially impossible to
program in assembly language, because they have an on-die ROMmed
interpreter for a high-level language (BASIC typically, as used in
1980s pocket computers). If the BASIC does not include PEEK/POKE/USR
or equivalent functions, there is no way to get native code onto the
device.

You can use any language you have a translator system for that targets
the 8051 architecture.  C is pretty much the universal default choice,
though --- with some assembly added to the mix.



C is generally easier to write in than assembly; except for those cases
where it isn't, e.g. where things like processor status flags or special
opcodes are involved, which C doesn't support directly.

Thanx for all the replies

So, in laments terms:  C is more popular than Assembly Language, but
Assembly language is more complex and powerfull ?

Do I understand this correct ?

Lodewicus Maas a écrit :




I'm beginner in microcontrollers, but if I can resume my poor
experience, you can combine both.
You could use C for general or complex operations (like : float a=3/4)
and assembly machine where you need a total control of execution time or
an acces to the  microcontroller features non easily accessible in C.

Franssoa

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.arch.embedded.]
In comp.arch.embedded,


Yes, that is possible, but you have to consider the execution time of a
floating point division on a 8051, it's not a PC with floating point
unit. ;-)

I'll assume you meant "layman's terms"...



No.  It's not really justified to claim either C or assembly to be "more
powerful" just like that, without specifying what kind of power you're
looking for.  The two have different powers in different areas.
Assembly lets you get at every last bit of the machine, whereas C saves
you from having to care about every last bit of the machine all the time.