Developing/compiling software

your

I am using ImageCraft for the AVR. Cheap and good. Excellent support.

Meindert

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:25:44 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"



Second vote here for Imagecraft. Been using it professionally for
several years.

Do ImageCraft make 8051 tools?

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:39:03 +0100, "FreeRTOS info"



D'oh!

  for (i = 0; i < 100; ++i) {
    printf("Atmel is not one-to-one with AVRs!\n");
  }

And the Imagecraft AVR compiler will work with the 8051?

READ THE QUESTION

BTW there is no better 8051 compiler than Keil

Atmel make a lot of different microcontrollers - are you talking about
their 8051 devices, or something else?  And have you looked at other
architectures?  There a couple of dozen other cpu architectures that are
better suited to C development than the 8051, and have better ranges of
tools.

I prefer gcc.  It's the compiler I use for 8 other processors,
and I find it helps productivity to use the same set of tools
on multiple projects even when the processor differs.

Is there a GCC for the 8051?  SDCC yes, GCC, as far as I know, no.

Oops.  I didn't realize the OP meant 8051.  I assumed he meant
AVR, AVR32, or ARM.  To answer you question, there isn't an
8051 backend for gcc.

There is, however, SDCC, which does have an 8051 back-end.
<http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/>

With a bit of luck, the OP is at an early enough stage that he can pick
something other than the 8051 before it is too late...

Let's hope he will not pick a PIC. :)

Ciao Jack

Is there something wrong with using an 8052 based CPU for a low end project.
Keil Tools are fine, but are pricey.  But if the project is small some
8052 chip makers offer a 4K Free copy of the Keil Tools for their chips.

It's kind of an odd architecture (by current standards). Well suited for
assembler coding. The bit-addressable registers (including I/O ports)
avoid the need to, e.g., do a read-re/set-write sequence to twiddle a
single flag. The external memory interface isn't all that common on uCs
and can be used to address memory-mapped I/O peripherals (external
synchro-digital converters, for example).

So, there's nothing intrinsically "wrong" with it, and it can be a very
good fit for some projects. Just need to match the problem domain with
the appropriate solution set.

There is no comparison between the SDCC and Keil

AFAIK there is no gcc for 8051

The Keil tools are an excellent choice for 8051 development.  In particular
their simulator is really good.  Allows device specific settings, so you can
simulate the I/O on your chip.  You can also have it use your PC serial port
as the serial connection to the simulation.

For 8051 there are no better tools.

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:53:35 +0200, "Lodewicus Maas"



I hope you aren't finding the many English answers complex enough to
make further discussion hard for you.  I see you haven't added
anything yet, which concerns me.  You mention Atmel and Asem51v1.3, so
I'm assuming this is the AT89 series from Atmel?

Some questions that are important to know, before discussing things:
(1)  Hobby or professional application?  (Not clear, but I'm leaning
        towards believing this is for professional use.)
(2)  Assembly or c?  (You mention asem51v1.3, but also mentioned
        'compiler software', so it's not clear to me.  It's possible
        when you talk about 'Keil software' you may only care about
        the debugger/JTAG capability, too.  Can you clarify this?)
(3)  Project size/complexity?
(4)  Unique requirements?

If budget is not a concern; this is a large, professional application;
and you intend on using the c language for it, then the main question
I'd have regarding using Keil's c compiler would be the quality of
their after-sale support for you and their product documentation.  (I
already believe they have a good quality compiler.)  How important
those are will depend some on your own skills, of course.

You might be able to test this a little by seeing how they treat you
with pre-sale questions -- but test things in several ways.  Including
some rather detailed technical questions, beforehand.  Ask for some
names they can offer you, unaffiliated with them otherwise, whom you
can talk with a little about their experiences.  And do some research
on your own to get a sense.  This may be worth a little prodding and
research at the price point they are charging.  Get a manual and look
it over, too.

Do the same for any supplier you consider.  In the end, whatever your
choice, you will spend a fair amount of your time learning to properly
use the tools.  Even if you have good hand-holding from the supplier,
excellent documentation, or an energetic and healthy users' group, you
will still have to put in a lot of your own time.  It's always good to
know what to expect and plan for.  So, the effort won't be entirely
wasted, even if the results don't materially change your final
decision.

I haven't used Keil for 20 years.  So my early experiences will be of
almost no use -- they have changed hands probably more than once since
then and, besides, the entire environment around them has also
changed.  But I think it would help others respond to you better if
you could say a little more about your situation.

Jon