How detect if MP3 player is recording in your room? [OT]

What "it"?

MP3 players recording?

I doubt it, show us even a complete theoretical description of it being possible including the readings from such a demonstration... let alone a purpose built device that exists for this purpose.

Electronic devices made the point. They exist, you may not be aware of them, but that is your issue.

Devices are being discriminated by their signature. Various sensors are doing this.

Do you know how many MP3 players are out there?

Now how about the phones that can record? A theory about what might be possible someday, is not same thing as what IS being done today.

You seem to be vaguely claiming it's possible without really considering EXACTLY what is necessary.

It's not my issue to claim detection of different devices proves detection of an MP3 player recording. Rather, it is your burden to be specific with the claim that it's possible by showing even one reproducible example.

We have no reason to believe a scenario like the OP has (too vaguely) posed, would allow identification of a device as an MP3 player that is recording. Identifying the existence of "some" kind of device, then a search uncovering this device and a physical examination to determine that it is recording (looking at the screen or lights) is another matter.

Yeah, so what. There are devices that can detect semiconducter junctions. MP3 players have semiconductor junctions, hence they can be detected.

They also have semiconductor junctions, hence they can also be detected.

Semiconductor junctions can be detected today.

Hogwash. You seem not to understand what can be done with electronics. There are some devices that use the priciples of a MRI and shrink it down to a hand held sized device to scan for explosives. Since the compounds in explosives give off a unique signature after being exposed to a strong magnetic field, that signature is then stored in memory. Now your sensor emits a magnetic field, and the reciever looks for the signature of the explosives. So it is only a matter of expanding your signature library, and your receiver can be programmed to look for pretty much anything. This is only one of many new tools that are out. The semiconductor junction detector has been out for around 30 years.

I never said it can detect an MP3 player recording. I said it can detect an MP3 player, or pretty much anything electronic.

Actually what he needs is a device to scan for electronic devices, and they exist already. How the OP handles the knowledge of such sweeps depends on him. He can either ask for the people to remove all electronic devices, or he can watch what he says.

Not recording, but its existence. Its existence can be determined, and it does not have to be on, as there are devices that look for semiconductor junctions(pretty much any electronic device that has at least a diode in it).

True, but the OP would know there is some kind of elctronic device on the person that may be capable of recording. How the OP uses that info is up to him.

No, you can detect semiconductor junctions then, but not the identity, nor function, of what larger device you have detected as having semiconductors.

Again, we are not merely trying to detect some arbitrary substance, it has to be a complete detection that discriminates a recording MP3 player. If all we cared about was that "something" was there, we have no need to consider semiconductor presence at all.

Again, it's pointless.

You seem unable to describe any way to discriminate the very thing this thread is about.

Ok, but again, it doesn't tell us the purpose of common items like plastic, or semiconductors. Explosives aren't going to be used in practically everything that plugs into a wall or takes a battery.

Maybe some, but not all will give off a magnetic field. It doesn't matter though, there is nothing in particular in an MP3 player that would discriminate it from a cell phone. Is it not obvious to you that common items people are allowed to have, can't be false detected? Perhaps whoever is subject to this search is first told to empty all pockets of such things, but as already written, we'd need to know such a scenario to delve into this kinds of tangents.

Great, if a recording MP3 player is made out of explosives.

You seem to have trouble distinguishing between random non-applicable information and the crucial details necessary to discriminate a recording MP3 player.

Nope, and you might as well stop pretending you know about this stuff because you have pretty well given yourself away. There is no one signature an MP3 player would have, it's not made of one unique material and there are myriad different players with different % of several materials, but practically all of them are commonplace, unlike explosives.

Show one recording MP3 player having been detected like this, anyone who claims they have a specific device that does it and can explain how- because it sure as heck isn't using a signature like with explosives.

The thread is about detecting an MP3 player. Show us it can be done, regardless of whether recording or not. It would have to be discriminated from other devices, and DEPENDING ON SCENARIO, from a fair distance and continuously, else the person carrying it just turns it on when needed.

I have never claimed "electronic devices" can't be detected. It's not enough, electronic devices are everywhere! It'll have to discriminate, unless you're in a 3rd world country where they can just go ahead and shoot anyone they suspect- so there was no need for a scanner at all.

I can clarify whatever you are unsure about if it helps.

I don't want to be recorded.

But I would like to know if I can be detected if I do attempt to make a recording.

And mp3 players have semiconducter junctions, hence they can be detected.

No, it will tell the OP that electronic devices that can may be able to record his converstaionare present.

to

But the signatures of plastic, batterues can be put into a library and the scanner will then alert you of there presence.

It is not the magnetic field that is being detected, it is the signature emitted when exposed to a magnetic field. IE when the molocules return to a normal state, they emit a signature.

Yep

Yep, and there are devices that can detect electronic devices. How the OP uses that Information is up to him.

they

You have been doing that this entire thread. The OP needs a device that can detect electronic devices, he can get one for under 1000 dollars. Now how he uses such a device is up to him.

Your last sentence is why "kony" won't get his "make&model" for such a detector. Or any more of a technical description than I have given him, of how they work.

I note that he isn't supplying the "Make&Model" of his undetectable MP3 Recorder. He provides an argument that no such detector could exist, based totally on his theories of what is possible, but then complains that no one will provide him with more than a basic theoretical description of the workings of a device, that its makers, sellers (usually the same people) and users, don't want working details generally available. Counter-surveillance devices are like alarm systems, you don't want to tell anyone the details of how one works. No one, who knows, is going to provide "kony" the "proof" he is demanding.

Luck; Ken

The specific scenario should have been, needed to be mentioned at the opening of the thread. Because it wasn't, the time spent on the thread wasn't very productive and many have lost interest.

I would find any test of any existing piece of equipment, a great start towards proving an MP3 player can be detected (as an MP3 player, since it may not be enough to identify a mere presence of an electronic device).

Recall that I'd mentioned the issue of scenaro already. What is or is not detectable depends on scenario. Can they seize ALL unidentified devices? Will the person be in a random or controlled environment? Indoors or out? Will the person carrying on the conversation need have a concealed detector that monitors in realtime, and at what distance, or only an initial or point-of-entry scan? What other devices are known to be present in the vicinity?

I have never suggested it was impossible to detect that someone electronic *exists* in general. Pinpointing the device, identifying it, or even finding that it exists in a specific scenario, let alone that it's recording, is what I dispute has not been proven or even reasonably suggested.

Randomly pick a small battery powered MP3 player. Remember that I need not pick _ONE_ because such a concealed device is not limited to being only ONE type of recording MP3 player, the detection equipment would have to be able to detect any and (practically) all types of recorders, but not detect any other common devices, not excessive false positive alerts.

Based on no details that are useful to discriminate what an MP3 player is and it's operation in recording.

If the topic had been detecting a RF transmitter of some sort, or a know class of substance like explosives, that is a different matter. Both have a few known signatures. So I suggest that until you can describe what the unique signature is that is unique to recording MP3 players, there is no way to detect them, and only them, selectively.

There is no basic theoretical description that has been provided relating to an MP3 player- the whole purpose of the thread. This is a key detail that cannot be overlooked. That some generalized similar concept of "detecting" some other thing is possible, can only be held true if there are unique detectable, in the specific scenario, attributes common only to MP3 players, or perhaps by extension, all small digital recorders but not other devices.

So what we have is a generalized concept of "it works for a secret reason". Sorry but that is anything except a reasonable argument, let alone proof of concept alone.

We have to have at least 3 things:

2) A method for discriminating recording MP3 players from everything else, in the exact scenario. Not some vague concept of detecting semiconductors, a mere HF signal or anything else that is not unique to a multitude of different MP3 players.

#2 is the linchpin, #3 may indeed be possible after #2 is resolved to #1. So it is with any purpose built device.

And now we will see Kony saying he knew that there was no such device, and that we were just spouting garbage.

Many cellphones have dictophone capability. How do you tell if the cellphone in the visitor's pocket is not recording? The phone could be also simply connected to another remote one, which would do the actual recording.

So it can tell semiconductor junctions of an MP3 recorder from semiconductor junctions of non-recording devices?

Th OP question was detection not *any* semiconductor device, but a MP3 recorder. By the way, the recorder doesn't have to be in that room. Enough to have a connected cellphone in a pocket.