Segway and their ilk

Hi,

In recent weeks, I have been repairing "electric wheelchair" and similar devices for a local non-profit. There appears to be a lot of variation among these designs. And, within a design, there are innumerable customizations that apply based on the needs of the user (a "one size fits all" solution is impractical to addressing the needs of this divers population).

Among other things, the "performance" characteristics of a particular "chair" (?) can be "programmed". I suspect this governs things like top speed, acceleration, control sensitivity, etc. (though I haven't yet explored the details of this "programming")

For example, in a home environment, one typically wants slower speed operation and tighter control/maneuverability. OTOH, cruising down a sidewalk you would prefer a higher speed (as you would tend to have larger distances to cover!). And, of course, the physical capabilities of the user also factor into play (e.g. someone using a mouthstick would have different "control abilities" than someone using a joystick, etc.)

[AFAICT, there is no way for the *user* to alter this programming. I.e., no button to select "sidewalk mode" vs. "living room mode". So,the programming must have to be a compromise]

I was test-driving one chair, recently and had an experience reminiscent of "Mr Toad's Wild Ride" (ending in a high-speed crash into a door!). Apparently, the chair in question is designed to be *fast* -- running at about 7 MPH (most people walk at a 3MPH rate). The design of the controls makes driving this a real challenge in an indoor environment!

Often, the charity discards these chairs as (practically) irreparable. Batteries usually need to be replaced (~$200). Or, the charger is damaged. Or, cosmetic issues. Or, the controls are too "customized" (e.g., the original owner's particular disabilities are too unique to find a similar user).

And, folks who "need" these often can get them (ahem) "for free" from their insurance policies, government agencies, etc. So, why bother with "something used"?

I am tempted to "rescue" the drive train (mechanism + electronics) from one of these "racing" (i.e., those that move at ~6-7MPH) wheelchairs to make a toy vehicle.

My first thought was something like a Segway. But, that's pretty boring. And, the idea of standing while riding is not appealing. Especially having to stand *still*!

My second thought was electric unicycle. However, I suspect the wheelchair mechanisms are too large for that *and* the speed much too high! (I've wanted to learn how to ride a *real* unicycle for years... but fear my body is too old to survive the consequences of the "learning process" :> Even moreso if that process was undertaken on a *powered* unicycle!)

The third thought was electric skateboard (one or two wheeled). But, that brings me back to standing, etc. I also wonder if local ordinances are written to prevent *any* "powered skateboard" use (after the uproar over those 50-100cc "buzz boards")

Conventional electric bicycles are also boring -- too "common" to buy an add-on kit that converts a regular bike to a "powered bike".

So, the idea that I am playing with is two *very* large dia wheels (e.g., maybe 48") with a chair hanging below their axis (i.e., the seated driver's head is below the top of the wheels). Note the absence of a third (or fourth) wheel to steady the device!

Then, use a Segway-style control mechanism that attempts to keep the drivers seat "level" by powering the wheels accordingly. E.g., this seems to be a variant of the Inverted Pendulum problem. Finally, a "control stick" that basically just shifts the center of mass around relative to that seat (I am thinking of simply mounting the considerable battery weight on the bottom of that stick so that pushing the stick forward moves the batteries back/seat forward thereby causing the controller to power the wheels forward as it tries to re-level the seat. Etc.

Something similar would apply for left/right control.

Also, I figure I would have to rethink the wheelchair mechanisms as scaling the wheel dia up by a factor of 4 (the existing wheels are ~1 ft dia yielding that 7MPH!) would dramatically impact power requirements (and speed!).

What issues might I encounter in the control system design that I should be wary of? Ive seen enough videos of contraptions like this "going wrong" (e.g., one wheel motorcycles) and have no big desire to add my own to that notorious collection! :>

Alternatively, any better, "interesting" applications for these sorts of motors/mechanisms? They're too big/powerful for "small loads" (e.g., imagine making an RC car with them: "Riderless", you could probably gear it to run at 50MPH!). They just seem too cool to casually discard!

Thx,

Reply to
Don Y
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'Gerbiling' is the main problem with dicycles/biwheeled/diwheeled vehicles so, using some type of software to control the deceleration as you mention could make them more mainstream.

There's a site devoted to dicycles I think....

yeah;

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Reply to
1 Lucky Texan

See one in action here:

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-- Roberto Waltman

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Reply to
Roberto Waltman

Yes, *any* sort of de/acceleration is a potential problem. Can just as easily spin the opposite way when "pedal to the metal". Of course, the hardest event to control is the sudden deceleration that accompanies *hitting* something :-/

Ha! The "pedal-powered" devices are attractive. Though that defeats the need for the large motors... :-(

Hmmmm... maybe a sun-deck that rotates to track the sun?? (ha! with the servo controlled by a sunDIAL!)

Reply to
Don Y

I stumbled into this strange world a few years ago after my mother suffered a bad stroke.

The ability to program the top speed and control sensitivity is very important if you're going to re-purpose a fast chair to a stroke victim. A stroke victim will likely have reduced motor control and positional judgement and giving them a fast chair will result in broken doors and bruised feet.

OTOH, a battery set with 1/2 capacity would serve them just fine if there was the disciple available to see that the chair got charged each night.

I also was amazed at the strange rules for buying new chairs and not repairing old ones. I seem to recall at one point, the care facility being willing to buy a new chair for my mom but not replace the motor brushes for $20. I bought a new set on ebay and got my brother to change them in 20 minutes.

Anyway, hope you can help someone with your work.

Reply to
Jim Stewart

Sorry to hear that.

Yes. Though the same applies to nearly any "chair" and "user". Complicate this with the differing needs of users (e.g., the chair I am working on currently is driven by rocking the head/neck side to side -- no arm controls.) So, a chair from one particular user will need changes in control

*mechanisms*, often.

Not to mention damaged walls, etc.

The chairs I've seen tend to have *really* depleted batteries. E.g., the one on which I had my "wild ride" would run for about a few hundred yards. Perhaps it could be coaxed a bit further at a reduced speed/output setting but definitely nothing "practical" for most users.

Yes. I suspect much of the thinking is that The Gummit (or insurer) will foot the bill so there is no incentive to reduce your costs.

There is also a liability aspect that we face -- if you sell/donate a chair and the individual is injured in its use, you take on a whole lotta hurt as reward for your "good deed".

The amount of waste is intimidating! :

Reply to
Don Y

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