Intel Atom: pros/cons/hazzards?

It's not just "take but not give". E.g., I plan on offering all of my sources to "anyone who wants them, to do with EXACTLY as they please" -- with the sole requirement that they acknowledge me as the original copyright holder and indemnify me from damages, etc.

However, if *they* don't want to share what THEY add; or, don't want to assume responsibility for redistributing *my* sources (or even disclosing

*which* sources they used!), then they shouldn't be REQUIRED to do so!

If I deliver my sources to exactly ONE entity and then decide never to offer them to any other entities, the first entity can LEGALLY keep them "hidden" with no other obligations to me or any of his customers, etc.

This is how traditional licenses work -- you are free to do what you want (and ONLY what you want!) with things that you "own".

I have no desire to "educate" potential commercial (or private) concerns as to how they can "live within" the GPL. I'll just avoid it entirely and be none the worse for wear! (because there are unencumbered alternatives)

My goal is to see my code *used*. As it doesn't run on a generic PC, "being used" means having people invest in creating hardware designs AND BUILDING THOSE DESIGNS. A big incentive for doing that is if they feel they can PROFIT from that (moreso than a 10% markup on a "board + components")

Who wants to invest thousands of dollars in a design, marketing, support, enhancements, etc. if you are competing with SparkFun?

Reply to
Don Y
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I think this is one that you are missing.

Note that if you distribute modified copies of Windows, with or without source, you will have MS lawyers on you much faster than GNU lawyers, and they are also paid more.


-- glen

Reply to
glen herrmannsfeldt

Yes, that is the *exact* purpose of the GPL, to allow your customers to have access to the entire product and be able to improve, fix or otherwise modify the ENTIRE product. But it doesn't require you to share your work with anyone if you don't want to. Keep it in a safe deposit box if you want, no one will order you to release it.

I think the LGPL still requires you to provide the source code. My understanding is the difference is in *when* it is in effect. It has looser rules on when your code is considered part of the LGPL code. But if you modify the LGPL code you still have the same sharing issues.


Reply to

If you code is covered by the GPL by being part of some existing GPL code, how can you be sharing it without also sharing the original GPL code. Is this an issue of defining *when* code must be covered by the GPL?

Good luck on that one. You "own" *NOTHING*. Try telling the government that you "own" your house and you don't want to pay the taxes on it since it is yours and not theirs. Or try adding a second story without a permit, or ...

You still "own" the code you have written even though it is covered by GPL. You just are required to provide sources if you give it to anyone else. As with *many* things there are limits to what you can do with the things you own.

I do. I am looking for a project I can design and produce to the "hobby" market with some potential for the professional market. My stumbling block is the software that is required for most projects these days. I've looked at the rPi and can't find an example of a decent driver as one example.


Reply to

"Sharing" meant to also include *sell* a product incorporating that code! You can use GPL'd tools to create other works. But, if you take those GPL tools and derive yet another product from them (or any portion of them), then the license terms apply to those derived works as well.

IF YOU ONLY USE THAT DERIVED WORK INTERNALLY, then you have no practical obligations. However, if you start selling or distributing that modified (enhanced/derived/etc.) tool, then the license's terms apply.

If those cores are GPL'd, then you will have to conform to the GPL's terms if you adopt one (for use in a product -- if you instead use one to create an electronic flyswatter that you use in your office, no problems!)

Um, you might want to reread the terms of their license! And, if, indeed, they are NOT complying with those terms, call the FSF-police and let them badger them into compliance.

The whole point of the GPL is to *promote* sharing -- by requiring you to propagate the licensed code (you are encouraged to also share your improvements but can excise them from what you distribute if they are clearly "freestanding"

2b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License. 2c) ... These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works. But when you

So, if I excise my "patches" from the "derived/modified" work, then I can distribute *those* as "separate works" under a different license (of my choosing).

This only makes sense when you are building a "module" or some other object that has merit in a free-standing manner. NOT when you are modifying something else and adding or altering its functionality in some (small or large) way!

The point is to let others accept your (my) code with as light a "touch" as is legally possible. I surely don't want to place things in the public domain. I *deserve* to hold the copyright on my works. However, telling others whom I would like to ENCOURAGE to adopt those works that they have some "other requirements" that they must additionally satisfy (and be prepared to defend in a court of law) is entirely different.

I can't think of anyone who would cringe at burying a copyright notice in some publication -- ink is practically free!

OTOH, agreeing to provide *my* sources (even WITHOUT their modifications) to *others* -- presumably who also want to COMPETE in their market -- raises the bar. Not only the (reasonably trivial) responsibility of putting it on a publicly accessible server somewhere (for some amount of time) but, also, ANNOUNCING to those competitors that you started with THIS codebase! (I don't think many businesses are eager to share ANYTHING about their products or processes! They fret when they have to disclose INGREDIENTS on food labels -- and those say nothing about QUANTITIES, etc.)

He has EMPHATICALLY stated that:

"I think you totally and completely misunderstand the GPL, totally and completely misunderstand how it applies to an operating system like Linux, and totally and completely misunderstand how open source development works, where it is a good choice, and where it is a bad choice."

I believe I have stated what I *want* from a license. And, why the simple "3 paragraph" example is so much more preferable (Gee, folks complain about the lengths of my posts -- but not the length of the GPL vs. other licenses??).

Given that he is so convinced that I "misunderstand", I would like him to clarify how the GPL lets me -- and anyone who embraces my codebase -- do "whatever they want" with it! And still comply with the terms of the GPL!

Can YOU tell me how I can do this? How I can tell a potential commercial entity that they can freely embrace my codebase in their products JUST by adding those 3 paragraphs to some "user manual"? That, as long as they have done exactly this, I will have no legal recourse to come after them for violating the terms of the license, etc.?

Reply to
Don Y

The above clause says I don't have to worry that adding some "other program" (or any kind of work -- even a JPEG -- or, a program that counts butterflies) NOT BASED ON THE PROGRAM on a volume (disk, CD, DVD) does not cause that "other work" to be subjected to the license.

Doing so would probably make the license completely impractical -- if not unenforceable (Hey, you distributed a copy of the Linux kernel on the same CD that you distributed a copy of some photos that I took... what gives you the right to TAKE AWAY my right to those photos??)

You'll note that I don't distribute Windows-based products! :>

Reply to
Don Y

Exactly. You (I) can use GPL'd products all day long. And, use them to create "independant works" (compile my own code, process my own photos, your compiled VHDL, etc.).

But, if I am creating a PRODUCT (something that *will* be "distributed" -- even without fee!) then I am bound by the terms of the GPL *if* I use anything encumbered with it.

If, for example, you use a GPL'd core in one of your designs, then you are bound by it IF YOU DISTRIBUTE THAT CORE (or the "sources" for it).

Reply to
Don Y

Now you understand the problem? :>

I can write something that runs *under* Linux and release it under any terms that I want.

I can write a clever cache management algorithm and release it under any terms that I want.

But, if that cache management algorithm is significantly integrated (dependant upon) the kernel in which it operates (NetBSD, Linux, etc.), then trying to extricate it from that kernel is impractical -- like selling automobile tires without also making automobiles available for sale!

This makes sense and is "fair" -- if you buy into the GPL "religion".

Other FOSS "vendors" don't put those restrictions on the code that they make available. E.g., I can take my cache management algorithm and create a BETTER performing NetBSD kernel -- and NEVER disclose it's source code even while commercializing that kernel! Nor do I even have to tell folks which kernel I modified. Or, provide the sources to that kernel WITHOUT MY MODIFICATIONS simply to "spread the FOSS gospel".

The restrictions placed by the GPL are consequential to using code that was originally GPL'd! If I start with something that is NOT covered by the GPL, then the GPL has no effect on what I can/can't do!

If the *only* "legal" way you can listen to a particular song is to download it (pay per play) from the iTunes store -- and the terms of the license agreement forbid you from storing it in any way -- then the only way you will EVER hear that song is to pay for it -- EACH time you want to hear it!

OTOH, if you can also acquire (license) a copy of the song/album (i.e., on a CD) with more permissive license terms ("You can listen as much as you want! But, you can't make COPIES of this! So, in effect, you can LEND it to your friend and still be in compliance.")

You *want* to develop a product -- and, presumably, make a profit on it -- AND, at the same time, have "anyone" be able to come along and recreate EXACTLY what you have created? By buying a bare board from a fab house in China and installing appropriate software??

What do you do when the fab house opts to sell the board WITH the "open" software for the same price as the bare board? LESS than you are selling them?? Where's your investment gone?

Reply to
Don Y














a driver for what?


Reply to

BINGO. The point is you have not explained what is so onerous about the GPL. You seem to have a problem with the fact that others will be subject to the same conditions if they use your work which is GPL'd. So? So far you have not explained why *any* of your work would be covered by GPL.

Yes and that only makes sense to me.

No, they have no obligation to distribute source to anyone they didn't sell or give the binary code to.

You get so hung up on the details you can't see the issues.

None of this makes sense to me. You say the GPL is too restrictive on those you share your work with but you want to retain your copyright... GPL doesn't take your copyright. It requires you to *share*.

Yeah, some people don't like that, but many *do*.

There is no license that lets others do "whatever they want" with your code other than just placing it in the public domain with no copyright and no restrictions. Is that what you want?

But you started out talking about why you didn't *use* Linux. How is that related to giving away your code?


Reply to

No, I don't understand what you are saying...

So what does that have to do with using Linux?

Getting pretty far off topic here...

Uh, better than that they can order as many as they want of the bare boards from

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I'll make money selling the assembled boards. If someone wants to try to compete with me go for it! It's not like it is a difficult thing to reinvent anyway and it's not a big market. Look at all the Arduino clones. Is Arduino not selling anymore?


Reply to


One thing that this allows is for someone to download the source for Red Hat Linux, change all the places that say "Red Hat" to say "Scientific" instead, then freely distribute ScientificLinux along with the source.

formatting link

Note that one can't change the name to "Joe's OS", pretend that it isn't based on Linux, and redistribute it closed source.

Note that following this, much of the work that went into the original is being used by you. If you don't want that, rewrite all the original code from scratch.

But without the GPL'd part, you wouldn't have a product. (snip)

Well, say you found out that the difference between a Chevy and a Cadillac was that they put Goodyear tires on the Cadillac. Then you went out an bought a Chevy, put Goodyear tires on it, changed the name on the front to "Cadillac" and then put it up for sale. You might expect GM lawyers to contact you.

You are using other's work to give value to your work.

This is the way most get around the above restrictions. If you can arrange your modification such that they are "mere aggregation" then you can distribute them without the source.

This is commonly done through DLLs. If you distribute a DLL that can be used with another program, or a program that uses a GNU licensed DLL, then you can distribute within "mere aggregation".

The fact that they are on the CD doesn't make them a derived work.

There are a number of commercial products that do this. Some Linksys routers are based on Linux, and distribute source. Others have modified the source and run it on routers that they bought. For one, linksys still sells the hardware, and two, few enough people do this that they don't lose much. (snip on source distribution methods allowed)


Note again, that you can't modify and distribute Windows, even though it isn't GPL.


I suppose, but many do use GPL code, and properly follow the rules.

-- glen

Reply to
glen herrmannsfeldt

Specifically a set of ADCs on the SPI bus. Someone was looking to simultaneously sample six ADCs for some signal processing and couldn't find anything for the rPI. Seems the SPI drivers are not very fast for whatever reason and regardless of speed can't be controlled by any sort of a hardware timer for stability. Unless I have missed something in the Broadcom manual it will require external hardware to establish the timing, then the SPI interface needs to be sped up to get adequate throughput.

Are you using Google Groups? All the quotes are double spaced.


Reply to


When I first saw LGPL is was Library Gnu Public License, as it is commonly used for system libraries. If you distribute a C compiler, people can sell (without source) program compiled with that compiler. Without LGPL, they wouldn't be able to link in libC and distrubute the output of the linker.

So, LGPL allows you to compile and link programs with gcc, and sell them closed source. (The early gcc used the library of the host system, such as the one supplied by Sun or HP, before glibc was available.)

-- glen

Reply to
glen herrmannsfeldt

Yes, I believe that FPGA vendors (at least I know Altera) has restrictions on *your* bitstream that says you can't use it in anyone else's devices. They were anticipating gate arrays being made from the FPGA bitstream so that the user had to do no additional design work. Such an ASIC company sprang into being and was shut down by the lawyers. Altera wants you to buy *their* ASICs.

That is a *restrictive* license.


Reply to

Exactly. Or, use something else as a starting point that

*isn't* GPL-encumbered.

E.g., my network stack is considerably different from most FOSS (or even CLOSED!) stacks. Should I modify a GPL'd stack -- or one that isn't GPL'd? Or, a "closed", proprietary stack?? I'm "starting" at the same point for each option -- but ending up with different restrictions on what I (and others) can do with the code after it's done!

Unless the part that I leveraged was covered by a MORE PERMISSIVE license! The difference lies in what you "trade" for the licenses terms. E.g., buying a closed network stack costs money AND limits who I can show those sources to. A GPL'd stack places restrictions on what I -- and all who come after me -- are REQUIRED to do with *my* "modified" stack. A more permissive (e.g. UCB) license tells me I have to put a copyright notice in my documents. "From scratch" says I can do whatever the heck I want!

Moving form "from scratch" to "more permissive" license gives me a BIG BANG (lots of existing code to leverage) for a LITTLE BUCK (the cost of a copyright notice. Along with everyone else down the line hereafter.

Of course! OTOH, if my tires *only* worked on Chevy's, then the fact that I can sell them independent of the actual cars means nothing -- if there are no Chevy car dealers! I.e., you could possibly MODIFY them to fit on Fords but no one would bother...

Exactly. I have no qualms with even *buying* licenses! E.g., my Inferno license is a *paid* license -- despite the fact that YOU can get one "for free".

But, it's silly to impose restrictions on the code IF YOU DON"T HAVE TO... IF THERE ARE OTHER ALTERNATIVES!

"We're selling tires over here. But, you have to agrree to let us put an advertisement on your vehicle saying where you bought the tire! (that's almost *fair* -- they obviously want more business and who better to advertise then their customers?!)"

"We're selling SIMILAR tires over here. And, we don't care if you DON'T advertise the fact that you purchased them from us!"

If the tires are essentially similar, why commit yourself to the advertising requirement and expose yourself to potential litigation (Hey, you bought those tires from us and you're no longer displaying the advertising placard we placed on your car! That's a contractual breach!)

If it's an aggregation, it's a separate product. So, my own license terms would apply. E.g., I could forbid others from aggregating it with THEIR offerings without my express written consent (right to copy has been infringed!)

Because a DLL can be summarily replaced -- a "drop in" replacement and the program still works.

Exactly. OTOH, if stared selling Linksys hardware (something functionally identical!) and put a copy of the firmware (compiled from Linksys's own web site!) on their own web site AND STARTED UNDERCUTTING LINKSYS'S PRICES, linksys would be "significantly pissed"!

Correct. Different license terms. When I build a product for a client, I no longer retain rights to anything "for hire". I.e., *I* can't go into competition with him. He, OTOH, can opt to sell source licenses to the materials that I wrote for him -- if that fits his business model.

E.g., id Software (Doom et al.) would (unsure about today as much of this has been published) gladly sell their competitors a copy of the source code for their game engine! Obviously, they thought the revenues from that sale would be worth more than any potential "lost market share". After all, having the game engine doesn't give their competitors a salable *game*! (and, no doubt, the terms of the sale precluded their competitors from reselling licenses on the game engine -- id Software was going to be sure to be the only source for that code!)

They decide what is important to them as a business -- or as private individuals (the copyrights for much GPL code are held by individuals or "organizations")

E.g., Linksys (Cisco) can decide that their A/B router will be replaced by an A/B/G router in the next 12 months. Why not short-circuit the devlopment by leveraging GPL'd code? The code effectively *needs* one of their routers to run... so, they have not lost any sales!

And, the folks who are willing to hack that codebase will, probably, eventually want one of those A/B/G routers... so, they'll have to BUY one...

I.e., they lose very little by going this route.

OTOH, folks like the PostgreSQL camp (UCB-ish style license) have a "product" that can run on ANY "PC". So, their revenue stream isn't tied to selling a proprietary piece of hardware on which the software executes (like linksys). Rather, they offer a *different*, ENHANCED product -- EnterpriseDB -- that is largely based on PostgreSQL but with additional capabilities FOR SALE! Over time, they can opt to take the source code modifications that they have made to "enhance" the original PostgreSQL product thereby creating the EnterpriseDB product and contribute them back to the PostgreSQL team -- thereby making them available to *all* PostgreSQL users. Presumably, at that time, they will have other "private" capabilities added into EnterpriseDB that still keep it differentiated from it's progenitor product (PostgreSQL).

For them, this can be a win! It brings people into the potential EnterpriseDB market -- by exposing them to a very similar product, PostgreSQL. It also gets DBA's familiar with their product ("for free") so that when those DBA;s have to make a recommendation to their management re: a choice for an RDBMS for their business, they are more likely to recommend that which they already KNOW!


Reply to
Don Y

*MY* code is then covered (encumbered) by the GPL -- for all practical purposes (my point of selling just the tires but no one sells CARS!)

I use operating systems every day to support the tools that I use: Windows, Solaris and NetBSD. Doing so, I gain experience with the issues pertaining to their use and operation. E.g., if you came to me with a Mac, I couldn't help you "solve your Mac-related problem... I don't use Macs!

I can't access the Windows sources. I *can* access the sources for NetBSD. (I could *also* access the sources for Linux) So, when I want to see why something works the way it does (or doesn't), I can delve into the NetBSD sources to learn what I want and/or CHANGE what I need to change.

Each foray into those sources I learn a bit more. Each time, getting more acquainted with the NetBSD codebase.

So, when I want to create a network stack, I've already got a good idea of how the source tree is organized, how buffers are manged in the kernel, how system calls are implemented, etc. -- ON NETBSD! I can more readily get to what I want/need to extract the code that I would like (even if it is just to see *how* they are doing something because replicating it might not work in my target environment).

Any code that I *do* "salvage" is "free" for me to use -- as long as I publish a copyright notice set forth in the license terms. Nothing more!

Now, imagine, instead, I was running Linux, here. Over time, I get familiar with how *they* have structured their source tree. How *they* manage buffers. How *they* implement system calls. etc. So, when it comes time to looking at network stack implementations, I am better equipped to *find* their code and understand how it integrates with the rest of the "system".

But, if I try to cut some of that code (maybe even most of the stack!) out of their codebase and use it as the foundation for *my* network stack, I have to drag in the GPL terms for the modifications/enhancements that I am making!

If this is undesirable (it is!), then there is no advantage to USING Linux, here. I gain experience with something that's ONLY VALUE (to me) is hosting my tools! And, it gives me no "leg up" when it comes to trying to identify the code that I would prefer to salvage -- from the system with the less restrictive license!

[Would you use metalworking tools around the house if you wanted to be a woodsmith? Sure, you can learn how tools *work*, but the experience you gain from metalworking tools isn't directly applicable to woodworking tools.]

I was trying to illustrate the sorts of terms you are free to put *in* a license agreement. If the user wants what you are offering -- and has no OTHER WAY of getting it -- then you can be as Draconian as your conscience allows!

Different size operation. The items I am talking about would typically have initial builds in the 10,000 - 100,000 quantity. I.e., something that requires a significant investment on someone's (commercial) part.

E.g., my thermostat is far more capable that a "Nest" thermostat. Costs far less to build. Would obviously SELL for less. Do you really think *I* am going to invest in a custom injection mold, packaging, etc. and an initial build of 10K (1000 would be silly... 20 for each state in the Union?)? Sell them out of my garage?? :-/

You (I) need to attract folks willing to make big financial commitments. Anything that causes them to be uncomfortable ("What's to keep some chinese manufacturer from going into direct competition with us?") just decreases the chance of the product (i.e., DESIGN) being used!

[I can build *one* and AMAZE the neighbors. But, that's pretty small thinking]
Reply to
Don Y

On 9/20/2014 11:40 PM, Don Y wrote: ...snip... This is going around and around in circles so I'm just not going to worry with it anymore.

I want to make sure I understand. You want to design something that you will make one or two of and the intent is that someone else will be making them in the 10's of thousands but you will receive nothing in return. But you want to preserve their ability to use your work to make profits.

Why do you care again?

WTF are you talking about???

I have no interest in trying to build many thousands of anything. I already have a product I make that I only need to sell a few hundred per year and it keeps me quite happy.

I think the problem is that from the beginning the discussion was about

*using* a GPL'd OS. But in your mind that means modifying it and including it a product which you have only skirted around until now. The rest of us have not been talking about building products that include the GPL'd code.

Reply to

Anything that would discourage others from embracing a codebase! Given that there are many commercial concerns who avoid GPL'd code, this seems to be a reasonable concern (ask THEM for their reasons why -- perhaps they dislike the letter 'G'? -- it doesn't really matter to me what their reasons are. As I said before, I am not interested in educating people as to why or how they can embrace GPL.)

My work would be tainted by the GPL if it was derived from any GPL'd "product". E.g., if I snip the network stack from the Linux (GPL'd!) kernel and use that as the basis for my MODIFIED network stack, then I am subjected to the terms of the GPL.

If I snip the network stack from the NetBSD (or FreeBSD) kernel (nonGPL'd) then the issue goes away. This should be a no-brainer decision!

As does the same for a piece of GPL'd software!

Now, REAL hypothetical for you: you have two essentially equivalent cores that you can embrace. One license says: "Put a copyright notice in your manual that acknowledges that a portion of YOUR PRODUCT was derived from code that was originally copyrighted by ABC". The other license says this PLUS: "Make available the sources for the core that you got from us to all of your users/customers. If your modifications can not easily be separated from that, then publish your modifications as well. And, ensure that anyone to whom you sell or license your product/FPGA design ALSO follows these rules"

Which core are you going to use, all else being equal?

At the very *simplest* level, the former license is far easier to OBVIOUSLY comply with: "Here is the copyright notice that you required printed clearly on page 12 of my manual." No wiggling around with lawyers (potentially) arguing about whether your code fragment: if (FatherName == "Bob") then... is effectively the same as: if (NameFather == bob) then... etc.

(e.g., imagine specifying a logic term as a sum of products vs. an equivalent product of sums -- and arguing about whether they are just thinly veiled attempts to sidestep licensing requirements: "No, this isn't 'Windows'; it's 'Doorways'!" :-/

Actually, 3b suggests otherwise:

b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your

-----------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,

The point is to get you involved in redistributing the GPL'd code.

The issue is when and how the GPL "attaches" to a work. I.e., if I can make something that has inherent freestanding value (no GPL'd code included), then it is free of the GPL's taint. (as it SHOULD BE!)

So, unless your work is free-standing in the absence of GPL'd code, you're work is probably affected!

GPL doesn't take away anyone's copyright. They still are the legal copyright holder. However, the GPL requires you to freely *share* that which is covered by the GPL!

As copyright holder to a nonGPL'd work, I don't have to share with

*anyone* that I choose not to share with! Or, I can change my mind later. Or, put different terms on each licensee. My choice, entirely.

"Microsoft Windows, Copyright XXXX Microsoft Corporation"

They don't have to make sources available. They don't have to agree to sell you a BINARY license to their product! They can change their mind next week. They can offer a license that is good for 30 days. Or, "one boot" (like the

99c per play iTunes example I mentioned).

However, if MS did something that caused their codebase to become tainted with GPL'd code, then the rules are different! By embracing the GPL'd code, they would have subjected themselves to its terms!

And THE MARKET decides who to reward/punish! If consumers were concerned about no ingredient labels on products (assuming this was legal) and avoided those products, then the folks who didn't provide ingredient lists would either have to change their policy or live with reduced sales.

Obviously, the free software "market" has decided that the GPL isn't the solution! If people disliked the fact that PostgreSQL isn't under the GPL and *avoided* it -- in favor of MySQL (which is GPL'd, IIRC), then the PostgreSQL folks would either decide to embrace the GPL *or* live with the market that NOT embracing it leaves them!

"Put a copyright acknowledgement in your printed documentation" is pretty damn close to "do whatever you want"! I'm reasonably sure anyone using a GPL'd product would be willing to "accept" those terms as well!

I've covered this in another post. Briefly, because I will consult the sources for any OS that I am USING, here, in the natural course of maintaining that software and LEARNING FROM THE WORKING IMPLEMENTATION THAT IT REPRESENTS. Why learn about some code that I can't/am-not-willing to incorporate into my own codebase? Why "infect" my codebase with a license from an encumbered piece of software when I can, instead, USE (day to day) unencumbered software and learn from *that*?

Reply to
Don Y

Ditto! :> Little to do with "Intel Atoms"! :-/

Yes, exactly.

So they are willing/eager to embrace the codebase and the products that are consequent to it! So I (and friends, colleagues, etc.), in turn, can buy those products off-the-shelf instead of having to build every instance of every product myself! (I don't want to be building boards!)

"Gee, that's really cool! Would you build me one if I paid you?"

One of my designs is a smart HVAC controller (thermostat). The "Nest" is a similar product offered by "Nest" (recently acquired by Google). Nice sexy little package. Expensive price tag (e.g., $200-300?).

Anyone wanting to bring my thermostat to market (more features, lower "cost") would have to invest in an injection mold for it, pretty cardboard boxes to package it in, sales literature, distribution channel, components for "many thousands" (unless they wanted to sell out of a garage), etc.

This is a sizable investment. One would want to be sure to be able to make money on the manufacture (and any future product enhancements) before opening up their wallet!

I don't want to build even HUNDREDS! I spent a fair bit of time, recently, trying to avoid building the *prototypes*! I am far more interested in getting the *design* right. So everything "plays well" together, looks like it was designed with a consistent philosophy and methodology, user interface, etc. Building (even prototype quantities) is largely a "chore"!

You initially asked why Linux "couldn't do that" (probe the Atom's hardware). I mentioned that I don't *use* Linux. From there, explained why I didn't (because I can't leverage anything that I learn/copy from its sources without being encumbered with it's GPL).

I obviously have no problem using CLOSED OS's -- Windows, Solaris being two examples, here. There's nothing that I can "go peek at" in those so its not an issue.

However, with FOSS software, the whole appeal (IMO) is being able to inspect the sources... to learn from a "working example"... a "reference design", so to speak. Pick a reference design from which you can FREELY learn/benefit!

(sigh) Done for tonight. Another cheesecake to put in the oven. Then, one *final* one next week. Thank God! :-/

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Don Y

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