Some day I might actually get to semi- retire, and would like to continue t o do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work wit h Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to spin some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't know what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and not a toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's and that seems less common for macs.
Bob
to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work w ith Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to sp in some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't kn ow what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and n ot a toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's a nd that seems less common for macs.
Linux mostly runs on PC's because there are more of them around, and they o ffer offer about twice the bag for the buck that Mac's do.
The Mac is fine if you need ease of use, but you pay for that ease of use. Linux is a much better operating system than the MAC or Windows offer if yo u want free (if not all that easy to use) software.
-- Bill Sloman, Sydney
You might consider using Linux. LTspice runs very well, because AIUI Mike Engelhardt is careful about Wine compatibility. (It saves him from having to maintain a Linux version of LTspice.) There's a Linux version of Eagle, if you want a reasonably full-featured layout package.
It isn't clear if Microsoft will ever release another OS for grown-ups, but you can have Linux any way you like.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
I'd give Gnu/Linux Mint XFCE a look if I were you. Not your daddy's Linux as it's easy to use and the Synaptic package manager handles searches for relevant packages for your needs. Can't hurt to download and burn a free DVD as it's also what they call a LIVE release meaning you can give it a look see before committing it to your hard drive. Boots into your RAM.
Bob-
Get the best of two worlds. Get a Macintosh. Install Linux on a second partition.
Fred
I forgot. It's Linux Mint XFCE 17 that has long term support and I've yet to find a bug.
Hi Bob,
I switched to a MacBook Pro 3 1/2 years ago and am very satisfied with the decision. It's used for general business, PCB layout, running IDEs,
3D CAD and printing, signal processing design and testing in Matlab, and data logging from USB connection to various instruments.A virtualization program, Parallels Desktop, runs Windows XP 32 and 64 bit versions, and I occasionally load a Linux release, but haven't used it for any real work.
My main concern when switching was that I was zeroing out all of the things I had learned about keeping a Windows install running smoothly, and would need to relearn all of that for a new OS. The concern was unfounded. I haven't observed any souring on Mac OS installs, updates are not complex, and the machine is very stable. It typically runs for weeks between reboots. When I have some problem or question it is usually resolved in about 5 minutes via an internet search.
At purchase I paid extra for phone support. I called them twice, the first time just to try out the number. The second time was a failed firewire port. I took the notebook to their store and had it back in 3 days.
Some other observations from using the setup:
Memory size in the Mac is not comparable with memory needed in Windows. I have 8 Gig and can simultaneously run more applications than I ever practically need. The machine has room for 16 Gig, but I've never seen the need.
Windows installs run much better when you don't ask them to do much. I typically don't let them have access to the network, so there's not much need for continuously running anti-virus. When I do need a re-install of Windows, I typically do a restore of the virtual machine file. File exchange between the systems is seamless.
The MacBook is still fast. I expect it to last another 3 years.
Applications on Mac don't run tendrils to the rest of the system. To un-install, typically you just delete the app files.
I updated the HDD to a 1 TB SSD about a year ago and updated the memory from 4 to 8 Gig about two years ago. No problem with the hardware upgrades, although on the newer models I think they may have switched to soldered-in memory.
I'm struck by how little time I spend keeping the computer running smoothly.
ChesterW
I run a business doing all that with a PC running Linux. All of the programs I use should be available for a PC running Windows.
Signal processing & heavy-lifting math: Scilab
Schematic capture & layout: Eagle (you must pay, and the price is going up). You may want to try KiCad, but I only know it by reputation.
Digital Design: Last time I tried it, Xilinx's webpack worked under Linux, and was free. If you're doing digital design all the time you'll find it too clunky, but if you're just doing the occasional one-FPGA thing, it should work fine.
Analog simulation: LTSpice, under Wine or Windows.
-- www.wescottdesign.com
to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work w ith Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to sp in some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't kn ow what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and n ot a toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's a nd that seems less common for macs.
For the price of a Mac, you can get 4 to 5 PC. I always have at least 3 la ptops running. Linux router, Linux laptop and Window 7. Most of the time, i use Window 7 to view datasheets, PCB layouts and watch movies I use Lin ux Mint/Ubuntu/Debian for almost everything else.
Are you interested in these applications *exclusively*? I.e., are you prepared to have another machine for any apps that are not addressed, here? And, if not, how will you handle the case where is only released for a particular platform?
How much work are you willing to do to keep the tools and the OS running/robust? Will you have any need to keep in step with "others" (clients, associates, etc.)? Can you tolerate keeping that machine "isolated" (i.e., off the 'net) to improve its security?
I run most of my tools under Windows (XP/7). But, use NetBSD for much of my software development -- primarily because I write OS's, network stacks/services, device drivers, etc. and being able to modify the kernel is a big win for me. I suspect most Linux/*BSD users just want "a free OS" or a "non-MS OS" and have probably never compiled an application from source, submitted a bug report or hacked a kernel. I.e., all of the stated reasons for wanting access to the source code :< (IMO, maintaining a "free" OS is a pretty high price to pay if you just want to save the cost of the OS license!)
What sort of "support" are you expecting to need? I.e., are your questions of the type: "How do I do ?" Or, instead, "I am CORRECTLY doing and the software is not performing as expected". In the former case, having access to a forum of similar users (of varying degrees of ability) can help you get past your problem. In the latter case, you'll have to hope someone "capable" expresses an interest and patiently wait for them to get around to patching the sources IN THEIR SPARE TIME.
E.g., when I purchased AutoCAD w/AME many years ago, within a week, I had encountered a flaw in the implementation. Within
*days* I had a revised version. This sort of support made a big difference when I had a contract to fulfill! How much you are willing to explore temporary workarounds or sit on your hands while waiting for a "free" solution is something only you can address ("semi-retired" doesn't imply "infinitely patient"! :> )Good luck!
If you pay the extra dough for a Mac but run most of your engineering programs under Linux, what exactly did you gain? If the OP is using a desktop he can just buy a PC with Linux or no OS and install Linux himself and skip all the expensive stuff from both MS and Apple. Laptops can be had with Linux, but I haven't found one that didn't cost more than a similar PC with Windows.
-- Rick
1 TB SSD? I expect that alone cost more than my entire laptop?
-- Rick
That is what would rule out a Mac for me. Although you can get most any type of tool for the Mac, it may not be the one I want to use. Same with Linux although I may be willing to give that a try... someday.
-- Rick
I got tired of PC laptops dying under a year of use, and bought a MacBook Pro which is still after five years in use.
The problem with operating systems is easily solved with VMware Fusion, and the other systems in virtual machines (here: Solaris, BSD, a bunch of Linuces and Windows XP).
-- Tauno Voipio
Go the "Hackintosh" route?
Apple is considerably more expensive than a PC. OTOH, I rarely hear Mac users complaining as LOUDLY and as OFTEN as PC users!
As I was alluding in my post on this subject, a lot comes from your personal attitude towards the tools. Do you want them to "just work"? Or, are you willing to put up with some "grief" to get where you want to be?
Most of my Mac friends don't want to be bothered with maintaining their "computer" -- any moreso than they want to change their own oil in their vehicles! Or, even having to *wait* for the oil to be changed (instead of continuing with their planned chores/activities).
OTOH, most of my "PC" friends don't have a choice (or, haven't realized that they had one!)
s
at one point tomshardware I think tried to see if MACs very really more expensive than PC, sure you could get a cheap windows laptop, but when they spec'd the windows laptop to be similar to the MAC offering they were priced the same
-Lasse
Some people buy Macs, and then install Windows over MacOS, to get the better hardware.
Alternately, people (like myself) install Parallels on the Mac, then full-up Win7 (Win8 will be ignored) in the partition. That way, I can have all three major platforms. Three? Yes, three. Windows, MacOS, and UNIX/Linux (which is the underpinnings of MacOS 10 et seq, and so is built in).
Joe Gwinn
About 500 bucks. Makes programs start almost as if from RAM. Worth it to me for the productivity increase.
ChesterW
Most of my (professional) colleagues aren't concerned with price. They realize that the effort to replace/reinstall software **FAR** outweighs the cost of any hardware replacement! So, their choices for hardware (PC or Mac) tend to be at the higher end of the spectrum.
But, it still boils down to how much they want to dick with their tools vs. concentrating on the job at hand (i.e., what they are PAID to do!).
The majority of PC users are bottom-feeders regarding price. They want inexpensive (which also is synonymous with *cheap* -- in the pejorative sense!) and ignore (or minimize) the "maintenance" costs of that choice.
And, those who are drawn like moths to the "latest and greatest" flame seem to fare pretty well in that regard! They replace their machines so often that the keycaps never get soiled! :-/
I've been tempted to buy a Mac just for some of the higher end audio kit, etc. But, not enough hours in the day to pursue everything I'd
*like* to! :<
to do explorations on my own dime. I do a lot of signal- processing work w ith Matlab, but also do analog and digital design and might even need to sp in some simple PC boards. Which is better for this , PC or Mac ? I don't kn ow what Mocrosoft has in store to replace win7 with something serious and n ot a toy. But I like that there's lots of nearly- free programs for PC 's a nd that seems less common for macs.
Macs support multiple boot partitions, and/or happily can load Windows/Linu x/MacOS on virtual machines (Parallels used to be the recommendation, I hear VMware is better nowadays). The record, is something like 50 OS'es and versions on one laptop.
My attempts to multiboot Windows-native machines are not successes. To us e Linux and Windows both, I've had to use multiple hard drives and hotswap bays...
The cleanest solution, is to go to thinboot machines and serve out the OS'e s from a server. That's cheap enough if the server is Linux or Mac based...
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