Why Hasn't This Been Done with Silicon Carbide

Today's microprocessors are all made using the CMOS logic family.

It has the advantage of using a minimum amount of electricity, since - exce pt for leakage currents, which are becoming more important as transistors a nd wires shrink - electrical power is only used during changes of state.

However, the performance of CMOS circuits is limited by the slower P-type F ET branch of them - this can be helped by going to Germanium, which has hig h hole mobility, or by using stretched silicon, or by using domino logic... the IBM CELL processor used an alternative approach instead of domino logi c which also worked.

And the fastest logic family used to be ECL, because the transistors didn't saturate. But it was an energy hog.

Silicon carbide can tolerate high temperatures, and it's a semiconductor. T he trouble is that silicon carbide crystals are riddled with defects, so it 's a challenge to even make decent single transistors out of it, let alone microprocessors with millions of transistors!

However, the thought occurred to me that surely there must be some material that forms nice single crystals, free of defects, with the same interatomi c lattice spacing as silicon carbide. One could use wafers of _that_ - pres uming it's also an insulator - and using chemical vapor deposition, produce good silicon carbide transistors in large numbers per die...

No doubt there are good reasons why that is harder than it seems.

John Savard

Reply to
John Savard
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cept for leakage currents, which are becoming more important as transistors and wires shrink - electrical power is only used during changes of state.

FET branch of them - this can be helped by going to Germanium, which has h igh hole mobility, or by using stretched silicon, or by using domino logic. .. the IBM CELL processor used an alternative approach instead of domino lo gic which also worked.

't saturate. But it was an energy hog.

The trouble is that silicon carbide crystals are riddled with defects, so it's a challenge to even make decent single transistors out of it, let alon e microprocessors with millions of transistors!

al that forms nice single crystals, free of defects, with the same interato mic lattice spacing as silicon carbide. One could use wafers of _that_ - pr esuming it's also an insulator - and using chemical vapor deposition, produ ce good silicon carbide transistors in large numbers per die...

What exactly is the result of a transistor built on a defective piece of cr ystal?

NT

Reply to
meow2222

Generally, a useless piece of crystal with an interesting doping profile.

I'm not sure down to the atomic level what's going on, but any crystal defect that conducts electricity and that slashes across what should be an insulating layer will kill the thing, as would any crystal defect that carries the wrong dopant into the wrong part of the device during manufacture.

I try not to dwell too much on "if only", if only because you end up wasting a lot of time on useless wishing.

--

Tim Wescott 
Wescott Design Services 
http://www.wescottdesign.com
Reply to
Tim Wescott

Specifically, the hole mobility is balls.

So for example, the Cray-1 or whatever it was that was constructed entirely from GaAs and ran at a blazing 60MHz -- was made in old fashioned NMOS. No CMOS, no low voltage, no ECL. Almost as hot as ECL though.

At least, that's what I remember reading.

Well, SiC too I suppose. Unless they need enough implantation energy that it goes on through regardless.

Not sure about Ge, but no one uses that stuff pure because temp performance is nonexistent.

Too bad no one's making GaN these days. Not much anyway, not for power. There's the lower voltage EPC dies, and this thing is brand new,

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and with suspiciously familiar ratings if I do say so myself...

Tim

--
Seven Transistor Labs 
Electrical Engineering Consultation 
Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
Reply to
Tim Williams

The Gigabit Logic parts were all n-fets, with depletion fets for loads, pretty much RTL type logic; absurd power hogs.

GeO isn't good like SiO.

There are very few germanium parts made any more. One germanium device made with actual lithography is a back diode, a fairly obscure microwave detector diode.

There are germanium photodiodes.

GaN is big in RF, especially military stuff. Lots of people are investing big time, and shipping parts. Macom, Cree, Triquint, Nitronics, Amcom, IR, probably more.

I haven't seen a SiC or GaN fet with avalanche ratings.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

The Cray-1 and Cray-1S were made with traditional ECL, although a custom fast version somewhere between ECL100K and EclinPs types, with about 750 ps propagation delay. That's why the static DC power dissipation was about

100KW. The clock was 80 MHz.

See for at least one reference supporting that it WAS ECL.

Jon

Reply to
Jon Elson

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data sheet claims it is avalanche rugged and includes an avalanche SOA graph.

Do any silicon MOSFETs beat the 1200 V, "19 A" ~10ns rise/fall performance of this part (smallest of the series)?

Reply to
Glen Walpert

GeO2 is water soluble, in fact, but it still isn't as bad a mask as CO2. ;)

I was talking to a photodiode manufacturer the other day, who said that it was becoming hard to get high-resistivity Ge wafers, so they couldn't make me Ge PIN diodes any more. :(

Germanium is unique in that it responds well from 350 to 1800 nm, which is really important in instruments applications.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 

160 North State Road #203 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

hobbs at electrooptical dot net 
http://electrooptical.net
Reply to
Phil Hobbs

SiGe makes for screamingly fast bipolar devices...

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142     Skype: skypeanalog  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

The EclipsPlus ECL gates are SiGe. And some of the Analog Devices fast comparators, I think.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

That's nice. They have got the series gate resistance down some, too.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

The first Garmin GPS chip (my design ;-) was on IBM (Burlington, VT) SiGe... all bipolar. ...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142     Skype: skypeanalog  |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 
              
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

I guess I was idly wondering if one could put devices in series or parallel to get round the problem upto a point. Then in theory one could create parallel data paths with voting on inputs... gets very wasteful though.

Most of it is useless, but 0.01% or so is surprisingly valuable

NT

Reply to
meow2222

This inspired me to do a search on gallium nitride.

One thing I saw was that, at MIT, someone had made a hybrid chip which was a silicon chip with some gallium nitride transistors for the parts that needed to be extra fact.

This is nice, but BiCMOS is much cheaper - a CMOS chip with a few ECL circuits for the parts that need to be really fast.

And while SiC goes up to 500 degrees C, silicon on insulator can go up to 300 degrees C - and that's what AMD has been using for its microprocessors for some time.

Another thing I found in that search was a mention of a processor TRW is working on for the Advanced EHF satellite program - so at least the military apparently has processors with higher than normal clock speeds. This wasn't GaN, it just happened to be mentioned as a future possibility in a speculative comment in the article.

John Savard

Reply to
John Savard

Yes, but the Cray I wasn't made from Gallium Arsenide. Seymour Cray did make a failed attempt to make a successor to the Cray I that was GaAs, and maybe that's the "whatever it was" he was referring to.

John Savard

Reply to
John Savard

Apparently he was talking about the Cray 3. One was delivered, it was the first Cray to use gallium arsenide chips - but I haven't seen a reference to the logic family it used, however.

John Savard

Reply to
John Savard

It used diode logic, and the diode logic drove differential amplifiers. The transistors were D-MESFET - depletion-mode metal semiconductor field-effect transistors.

John Savard

Reply to
John Savard
[snip]
[snip]

Yep, I was a designer on an Atmel custom RF chip... incoming at

5.5GHz... taken down to ~500MHz with SiGe PECL, then translated to CMOS. ...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at

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| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Reply to
Jim Thompson

GaN fets are in production and widely used in RF apps. There are some great super-wideband "pallet" RF power amps available now, and the military boys love GaN.

A GaN power fet blows away any bipolar or mosfet, for sheer speed and low gate drive requirements. The Gm/Cin ratios are awesome.

GaN is usually grown on some substrate material, silicon or SiC or, lately, diamond.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   laser drivers and controllers 

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

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I don't see any there with the handle riveted to the head,

and the material is different too,

--
umop apisdn
Reply to
Jasen Betts

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