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Waterproof GPS/compass for long-distance swimmer

I coach a girl who does long-distance open-water swimming - like the Channel, that sort of thing.

We think that some sort of GPS or at a minimum a compass would be a good tool for her to wear, both while training and while actually doing the swims.

One of the things we'd like would be some sort of feedback on direction. There are a number of issues/characteristics with this:

Aural feedback may not work well. Bone conduction is a possibility, but earphones probably won't stay put for the length of time she will need the info.

An led indication of course could work; maybe a tri-colour attached to one goggle (green ok, red veering left, yellow veering right, that sort of thing).

There is a bit of body-motion to consider. She could wear a belt with the unit in the small of the back, or on the head if it is not too large. The back would have mainly roll; the head may have a bit of yaw as well, so that might be trouble.

Initial setting of the course would have to be worked out - if the unit were on the head, perhaps she could orient as desired, then press a button to fix that course.

Course indications would need to be integrated over a short (~5 to 10 sec) period. It might be helpful if this period could be randomly varied within those limits, as some swims do not allow "pacing", and a repeating signal could be used for this - unless it were irregular.

For training she often does multi-leg "loops", returning to a starting point several times. For that some sort of GPS-type distance logging, course & waypoint setting, etcetera would be a plus. This would also be a BIG plus for some swims where current is a variable.

Waterproofing needs to be enough to withstand shallow immersion - say 30 feet.

Battery life might be a factor, some swims can be more than 10 hours.

Radio coms would also be a plus, but rather than get just a radio and have a guide give info, a self-contained unit would be much better.

I can do small electronics, uc programming, and machining, but have very little knowlege of what building blocks are out there and their qualities - like how fine a resolution can you get from electronic compasses, what tricks can you get GPS to do, will these blocks work if under 2 feet of seawater, current draws etcetera...

Reply to
_
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GPS antenna will _not_ work in water. Spray is just as bad.

The swimmer I have seen in the news are towing a small raft behind them.

This is not a good solution for you ??

donald

Reply to
Donald

A further observation: Is it really wise to have a long distance swimmer out in open water without an escort craft? That would be the logical place (and pretty much a no-brainer) for the location of any navigation equipment.

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Paul Hovnanian     mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
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Keep your gnosis out of my business!
Reply to
Paul Hovnanian P.E.

Of course not - but that's not even a consideration; don't worry. For swims of any length there is a guide boat. What we are looking for is to reduce the small course variations that can occur, and if possible to track distance for training purposes.

Another poster has said that GPS units will not work in spray - is this a guaranteed idea-killer? A unit mounted on the head would might be able to see satellites for some proportion of the time.

A towed raft might not be oriented in the same direction as the swimmer, and compass heading would then differ.

Reply to
_

Isn't it possible to simply tell her, "Follow the boat"?

Thanks, Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

A small amount of water on the antenna will attenuate the signal, but it should still work. Otherwise no GPS unit would ever work in Washington State ;-)

You'd probably have to mount the antenna high on the swimmer's back, where it would have a view of the sky but not be continually immersed as the swimmer rolls her head to take a breath.

A GPS unit won't give highly accurate bearing information until it moves some tens of yards and can calculate the difference. Same for the track error. The swimmer could end up weaving quite a bit back and forth and not get a correction signal. A compass, on the other hand will give instantaneous course error feedback. What is needed is a GPS unit and some other instrumentation (to calculate drift due to currents, etc.) on the boat to calculate the preferred heading and some way to get that information to the swimmer, who carries a compass.

--
Paul Hovnanian     mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
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On a clear desk, you can sleep forever.
Reply to
Paul Hovnanian P.E.

GPS on the boat, boat goes straight, swimmer looks at boat, swimmer goes straight.

Ed

Reply to
ehsjr

Tell that to Ted Kennedy.

--
  Keith
Reply to
krw

Yes, but no.

The boat will wander, too.

The aim (pun yes) is to feedback course following on a very frequent (~5 sec) basis.

And lifting the head to see the boat *really* increases the effort of swimming; when you are going for 10+ hours a small percentage can make the difference.

Reply to
_

If I remember correctly, someone designed such an item for himself and described it in "Circuit Cellar" magazine. Look here for the archive.

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Al

Reply to
Al

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I think Paul Hovnanian has adequately explained the problems associated with what you are trying to implement. In a practical sense, what you are looking for is a system similar to this

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While RaceFX was developed for positioning cars on a racetrack the makers say there is no reason why it could not be applied to other sports such as sailing - and a swimmer could be equated to a boat. My opinion is that the bulk of a suitable antenna/receiver would make any GPS system unsuitable for wearing by a swimmer, even if it did work as intended.

Reply to
Ross Herbert

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