want help learning practical circuit design

That would be a small book, maybe a pamphlet even...

No, call it Hacking Your Way to Success in Electronics:-)))

What a different idea...

There's more than enough to last a lifetime unless you just want to do really simple stuff.

Have a look at Phil Hobbs' book and see if that's what you need. _Building Electro-Optical Systems_.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

I never learned how to weld, there don't seem to be any really good references on it, and I mean welding taking into account the various welding technologies and the science of the alloying for the infinitude of different materials, not just hold the stick at such and such an angle and drag it at such and such a rate developing a fillet of such and such dimensions, which is near useless unfulfilling ape mime of limited functionality.

?hl=en&q=op+amps+for+everyone+mancini&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail

Does AoE have any material on construction and layout techniques at all or whatsoever? It just lacks the emphasis and practical focus on the kind of linear electronics most pertinent to embedded systems design. You probably don't even have a copy of Op Amps for Everyone or even know Ron Mancini. After digesting Mancini, the OP can attempt Walt Jung's Op Amp Applications Handbook which far surpasses everyone in its level of detail and coverage.

[snip...snip...]

Strongly recommend also getting a copy of the companion student manual for AoE

It's available from the link as well as the usual on-line booksellers.

Reading through, and thinking through, AoE is A Good Thing, of course. The student manual provides some directed lab work for reinforcement and practice.

--
Rich Webb     Norfolk, VA

But drawing a good bead on a MIG welder is as satisfying as making a perfect solder joint.

John

Fred, I certainly thought you would be good at "ape mime" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
         America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

There speaks the "ape mime" again ;-)

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
         America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave

Yup, 50-100 pages should hit the high points.

Hacking complements theory, especially in the picosecond domain. An x-acto knife can make or break a month of 3D e-m simulation.

And I'll take success whichever way it comes.

I just had a new board fabbed, and included SMA connectors so I can frequency sweep and TDR/TDT the power planes. Reality is interesting.

Oh it's been done, but very badly. For example, Steinberg does all his calculations in Olde English units! BTU/hr ft^2 degF, for Pete's sake. And he does offer some material data in metric units, cal/ sec cm degC! Calories! Centimeters!

John

Yeah, but do you do anything structural, where the joint has to be strong, that's what I'm getting at. I've done a lot of brazing in large systems, it has to be good, usually there is toxic stuff circulating and failure is catastrophic and unacceptable.

Excellent, especially the quotes at the start of each chapter, like a Victorian novel.

John

I 've tried it but it drives me crazy, just can't do it, makes me feel like such a .... well, an ape.

I'll agree with that, almost all the great innovations, even the transistor, were hacked experimentally to begin with, you just can't beat intuition. But after the hacking is finished, some attempt is made for a theoretical foundation to see what they have on their hands there.

?hl=en&q=op+amps+for+everyone+mancini&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail

I learned the way the OP seems to be proposing to learn: by building stuff. In my case it was taking apart old tube-type TVs and building mostly not-working tube circuits from scratch and mostly working transistor circuits out of books. I was very motivated because not being able to design working hardware made me nuts.

The actual design part I learned from reading National Semiconductor and Motorola data sheets and applications books. I had a subscription to the old Motorola Update program, where they'd send you a huge box full of manuals twice a year. For a kid, that was pretty cool...getting the same treatment as the pros. It made me take hobby electronics much more seriously, just seeing half a bookcase full of manuals in my work room in the attic. Stuff I'd never thought about, like PMOS memory chips and

6805 MCUs.

If the OP is interested mainly in embedded system design, that's much easier in some ways but (to me) much less satisfying..."Just connect it together and figure it out in software" isn't nearly as artistic as designing analog stuff that really works.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

?hl=en&q=op+amps+for+everyone+mancini&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail

Sounds good. Marc Thompson of WPI just published Intuitive Analog Circuit Design under Newnes, which is a good consolidated reference of old school style circuit design for newbies. I like it for the switching performance coverage.

Good point. Once a virtual accident demonstrated that a transistor was

*possible*, the theory took over and demonstrated how to do it right. But the hack came first! It's like the 4-minute mile. It was considered impossible until Roger Bannister did it; soon everybody was doing it.

Electronic design is a sort of hybrid. We are, bottom line, hacks in the sense that the process and the industry selects for success, however elegantly or crudely it's come by. Electronic design usually benefits from theory, but that's really just another hack, because the theory isn't the end goal, it's just another thing we use when and if it helps get the products done, but we'll fly in the face of theory if the contrary works better. Sometimes writing a program to try random solutions, and letting it run all weekend, produces better designs than calculus. And sometimes instinct trumps theory.

And theory never produces ideas.

Electronic design is taught, or at least pretended to be taught, in universities, but it absolutely lacks academic rigor.

John

I'll put my order in now. For both of them. :-)

Ed

That's what my undergraduate labs (in the early '90s) did, and honestly I think most students would have done far worse if they'd been soldering the lab experiments together. Solderless breadboards work fine at low frequencies (i.e., the rather large parasitics aren't significant yet) as long as the board hasn't been abused (people shoving in wires that are much too big) and isn't past its prime.

I always soldered together my "final projects" in the couple of labs that had them (although most other students didn't) -- too much paranoia on my part that a wire would pull out at just as the instructor came by the grade it.

I figured I had a good welding instructor when I was busily grinding down some welds, the guy came over and said, "Here, let me do you a favor that'll make your job here a lot easier" and proceeded to remove the guards from the grinder. :-)

I was a little worried that these days he was kinda inviting a lawsuit if some other kid that he'd done this for then proceeded to hack his arm up or something, but I suppose he figured he could tell which students were likely to do that or not in the first place...