Verifying Counterfeit Parts

With the current shortage and a factory fire, two parts I need are in very short supply and I am having to go to grey market and third level distributors. I would say less than 1 in 10 on Alibaba have real parts. I've tested some from one vendor and they are ok, but they are $40,000 a reel. So it's hard to wire that much money without a lot of concern if the next parts will be good. Even if the vendor is honest, he can't tell any better that his supplier is providing real goods.

I heard back from a distributor in Hong Kong who can supply all I need of one part. They seem to be saying they will get shipments from ADI for this long lead item. But they want full payment in advance and they don't seem to be talking about an escrow service. That's around $70,000. I can't find much info on them one way or the other on the Internet.

This chip shortage is a PITA!

Reply to
Rick C
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With that sort of money at risk you might think in terms of visiting to collect the parts and testing them.

I wouldn't trust any local representative unless I knew them well. My rule for far eastern grey market stuff is never to commit more than you are happy to lose.

Punting £50 on Aliexpress is fine, but $70,000 - I wouldn't.

And even if the parts test out OK, how do you know that they are 100% the real thing ? In previous parts crunches there were stories of reject chips that were stolen (pretty much from the bins) and then marked up as good.

MK

Reply to
Michael Kellett

The parts could be like some RF power transistors I bought from China. They tested good on a transitor checker that only uses DC to measure current gain and leakage. Instead of 20 watts output at 30 MHz I was only getting about 5 watts. Replaced them with some parts ordered from the US and got the rated 20 watts or slightly better.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

I don't think spending $40k+ on parts from Ali-whatever is going to get you anything but a complete waste of your money, don't do it.

I have bought small quantities of non-trivial parts - e.g. some fast HV diodes from some Chinese ebay seller and they were OK (quite good really). They need their reputation so they won't cheat for a few dollars.

But for $40k they will print on the (possibly empty) BGA cases whatever you can ask for....

Reply to
Dimiter_Popoff

How would flying to China help that? To test I need to have the parts here. If I can't tell the parts are not 100%, how would anyone using my board know?

There seem to be some more mainstream suppliers with these chips a MUCH higher prices, but what do I know about THEIR suppliers? It's not like they are actually testing the parts. I read one company's incoming inspection process and they simply inspect the parts visually for marking and missing pins.

There is no easy solution to this problem. The money in this order is large, huge in fact. So even if I lose out on a few shipments of parts, there will still be lots of profit.

Reply to
Rick C

If that is the case, I get my money back from Alibaba. Well, other than the bit Alibaba keeps for their trouble.

Reply to
Rick C

I see this as an act of bravery but hey, bravery is to be admired :-). Hopefully you get what you need OK, and please share your experience.

Reply to
Dimiter_Popoff

I bought $5000 worth of chips that were counterfeit. That was on a credit card. It was educational in that I now know what to look for in the markings for the AKM chips. ADI is not very forthcoming, so I only know what the chips I've bought look like. When they deviate from that appearance I can't be certain they are counterfeit, but at least I can avoid those.

One of the dead giveaways seems to be the pin one mark. The chips known to be genuine all have an embossed, molded in pin one indentation. The ones that don't have that, have a laser etched pin 1 mark. Anyone have known genuine plastic body flat pack type devices with laser etched pin one marks? These particular parts are 16 or 20 pin TSSOP packages.

Yeah, if this deal was not worth millions in my pocket, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. But it's hard to walk away from that much money.

Reply to
Rick C

Can't you buy from ADI direct? I brought some from ADI before. If not, at least distributors like digikey or mouser.

If someone else claim they can have better price or lead-time, they might not be totally forth coming.

Reply to
Ed Lee

you don't think he would if he could? all kinds of components are out of stock everywhere

or they have a left over reel of something no one has and everyone wants

Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

Yes, I can buy from ADI direct, if I don't mind waiting until June, 2022. Perhaps you missed that first part about the parts not being readily available.

Reply to
Rick C

I bought a reel of the AKM parts from a guy who had just bought a reel for a new project prior to the factory fire. He had them listed on ebay and I saw them several times thinking he only had a handful. Finally I typed in quantities and found he had nearly 1000. Turns out he was an hour away from my contract assembler so we met there and tested a couple of parts and made the deal. Wish I could find more like that.

Reply to
Rick C

If it's possible to test on-site (ie. you can come up with a means of testing and supply any equipment/knowledge) you can have a 3rd party do some spot testing, assuming they agree.

Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

What's the obstacle to making them here? Can't be labor cost, can it?

Reply to
Tom Del Rosso

Most of them won't even agree to pay the return shipping if the parts are crap, so they sure as heck aren't going to fuss with a third party testing. They just don't work that way. The only reason why I would consider them at all is because Alibaba is the escrow agent and I can return the parts if I have to for a refund.

I did find a US company who seems to know their way around the Asian markets and they might come back with a decent quote tomorrow. If so I'll just buy everything I haven't already ordered through them. They have experience with detecting counterfeits and were recommended by my customer. We'll see if they can get what I need without too much of a price premium. Heck, they might even give me credit terms.

Reply to
Rick C

If they "don't work that way" they don't seem very trustworthy. Maybe they are just brokers who don't actually have the goods or maybe they are crooks. Shortages bring out the latter.

The old-school method was to insist on documentary L/C terms but that's cumbersome (though not so much in the context of ~$100K). Kind of an escrow where the banks and correspondent banks adjudicate. It's more protection against getting shipped a carton of bricks than some more subtle difference against the OBL.

Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

And even that isn't 100% if not done carefully, I know a gentleman who lost several million dollars on a sale because the correspondent bank (in Russia) was not reliable.

Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

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