Counterfeit parts alert on Ebay

Thanks for the warning.

How can you tell it's counterfeit?

John E. wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.sf.sbcglobal.net:

The date code, I think. 0512 = 12th (working) week in 2005, but Motorola sold off their semicondutor manufacture, which became ON Semiconductor.

Lostgallifreyan wrote in news:Xns998DAC1CB7573zoodlewurdle@140.99.99.130:

I mean, they sold it in 1998 or 1999. No Motorola branded parts made after that time.

The bat wing doesn't look quite right either.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Exactly. You won't find Motorola transistors made in 2005. The counterfeiters are so bent on selling new parts (at horrendous prices!) - they don't bother to look when the manufacturer actually made them. Previously, he had the same thing with RCA and GE parts -- Nice, new looking parts, new date codes.... but neither have been making the sort of part in question in years.

And -- every single one is made in Mexico... the RCA's, the GE's and the Motorola's.

Yet Ebay doesn't care. Somebody's house will burn down, maybe someone will get injured...and ebay is complicit.

-- Ed

It has the Motorola logo on a part that's date coded 0512. (wk 12, 2005)

Motorola long ago sold their discretes manufacturing to On Semiconductor. The part should marked 'ON' not Motorola.

Graham

When it goes Poof!

"GPE" wrote in news:nhPwi.60707$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe16.phx:

True. [quote] Hello,

Thank you for writing back to us about item that you reported to us.

I can understand your frustration at the item not being removed, and would like to explain further why we didn't remove it.

First let me reassure you that it's our top priority that eBay remains a safe and reputable place to shop. We appreciate you taking the time to send your report and we fully investigate any reports that we receive.

After carefully reviewing this item's description and images we concluded that the item the seller describes in the listing doesn't breach eBay policy.

It's clear from your email that you're confident this seller is selling an item that breaches eBay policy via an apparently innocent listing. However, since we don't possess or examine any of the items listed for sale, we can only base our judgement on the information included in the listing itself.

If you have material proof that this seller has sent or intends to send an illegal item to a buyer, please don't hesitate to contact the police. eBay will always fully cooperate with police investigations.

Thank you again for your report and for your help in keeping eBay a safe place to buy and sell. Please continue to report any listings that you suspect breach eBay policy.

What else do they need? I had to tell them three times that reporting a listing number isn't enough. We need a way to tell them what they should be looking for. Even when it's spelled out explicitly, they don't accept a picture of a verifiable IMPOSSIBLE component to be meterial evidence!

Lostgallifreyan wrote in news:Xns9990567B9FB79zoodlewurdle@140.99.99.130:

Perhaps someone in the US reading this might be willing to go to the police with this? I'm in the UK, they won't take anything from me, I have no say in US jurisdiction. It will be far better coming from someone in US semicondictor manufacturing anyway, after all. It needs to come from someone who can be considered an expert witness.

The FBI does have a computer fraud department specifically for this. I'm considering it. They won't go after the seller as he is in Hong Kong. But they should go after ebay for selling the parts...

"GPE" wrote in news:3fFxi.85777$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe14.phx:

The listing claims he's in Canada. Only the parts are in Hong Kong. The part on listing 220103822371 appears to be a counterfeit, and several people have clear reason to say so. Either the seller is operating via Canada in some way, in which case he's reachable under Canadian law, or he's misrepresenting himself on eBay in which case eBay are liable foe correcting this if the seller won't correct it himself.

I don't know what the Canadian law is on this, if he was claiming to be in the US, he would be reachable the same way that a UK white-collar criminal is reachable even if the funny money passes only once, accidentally, through any US bank.

I suggest take it to the FBI if you think they'll have a look at it. It definitely looks like bulk fraud, so many US made parts all coming from Hong Kong. It is a tad circuitous, no? Likely to raise a curious eyebrow, I think, if nothing else.

Circuitous? Most likely some dude/ette in Richmond Hill (a heavily Chinese suburb of Toronto) is selling stuff that one of his/her relatives in Hong Kong is mailing off. It's really quite straightforward and logical, aside from the counterfeit aspect (which the seller may or may not be aware of).

Caveat emptor.

eBay is reluctant to take complaints from non parties to a transaction seriously, at least in part, because it's common on eBay for competitors to file false complaints to try to get auctions taken down.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Spehro Pefhany wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

True, but a lot of unused US made parts ending up for sale in China is a little odd. They'd probably have a higher value in Chinese manufacturing to raise the value for sales. Most of China is busting a gut shipping raw stuff IN, including scrap metal from across the world, not shipping it out in the original form to the places it came from. The seller might not have known about this specific counterfeit, but probably does now, so hopefully those parts might stop appearing.

Only up to a point. Once stuff starts to fail in an incendiary display that kind of waiver cuts no ice at all, and the buck gets passed forcibly right back up the chain.

That's true, but citing specific evidence or impossible date codes on a phot of a part isn't exactly open to 'interpretaion'. It either is, or is not a fake. If it can be verified as an impossible code then it doesn't matter who says it to them. The fact that it does just means someone with serious clout is going to have to tell them again until it sticks.

Have you not noticed the guy from Hong Kong who's always trying to offer grey market/surplus parts here?

If prices are enough higher here than there, it makes sense.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Spehro Pefhany wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

As it always would, but the quantities are low. Most of the Chinese output to the west in raw parts is more in the form of a promise, like those Google returns that swamp a page with useless numbers and nothing else.

There are savvy dealers who buy modest bulk end of line stuff when designers see it flagged as imminently obsolete and stop buying. The price falls at this point. Then it rises later as spares are wanted for repair of existing equipment and the original source dries up. That's just good sense, taking advantage of an opportunity like that.

It's not the same though if you suddenly see clear evidence of faking, or of a larger number of parts than the original stockists had remaining at the time they were discontinued. Which means those best able to handle the counterfeit problem are those who made and supplied the originals. No-one else has the ability to account for the original flow of parts, so no-one else is in a better position to establish where and when there is a problem.

If the original makers decide to turn their backs on good parts and stop making them, or even bothering to do basic inventory counts and keep records of past sales, they only have themselves to blame if they find they can't identify a counterfeit problem.

In all probability that simply means the seller in Hong Kong lied when setting up the account.

Attempts to communicate with ebay tend to be frustrated by their use of bots to answer emails. I doubt very many are ever read by a human.

Graham

Unfortunately, Motorola no longer have any interest in discretes so simply may not be interested. It's probably more damaging to ON but they don't have the rights to the name I presume so there's no offence they can complain about.

Graham

Eeyore wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com:

Could be, but I go with Spehro's description of this in this case, that context he describes is convincing. (Chinese family connections between China and localised emigrants in Toronto).

The second usually is. :) I assume you have to knock at least twice to get a real answer. The main problem is the different person each time, but once interest is sparked at their end they usually deal with it directly even if just to convince the sender that they don't need to keep sending. If they automate that too, their user base will start to decline dramatically, as that would then be a very obviously and deliberate failing in customer relations, the likes of which consumer programs like to embarrass firms with, so someone in eBay is always listening, but I think they don't like to encourage us.

Eeyore wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com:

I hope ON got a record of past sales that can establish whether fakes are being made in bulk. If not, they might claim against Motorola for not giving what they need to protect their investment.

There will always be leaks, but if counterfeiting ever becomes widespread, it would be because major firms foolishly decided to pretend their past no longer matters. That's an excellent way to make it come back to haunt them.

Keeping records is annoying, but digital storage makes the task almost mindless, so if it's done, it will be harder for new 'records' of old parts to be faked in order to warrant the (false) existence of new supplies.

Less arbitrary proliferation of part types might also help. :) Choosing an op-amp has become more bewildering than choosing stuff in supermarkets. Less obsolescence of sidelined parts will help reduce counterfeiting.