The print cartridge conspiracy

martin

"Abstract Dissonance" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:

I used a refill kit from CompUSA to refill the cartridges on a Canon BJC-

620,and the ink destroyed the printhead(the ink would run through the cartridges despite all attempts to seal the refill hole),and the black ink faded to brown on docs I printed,even though they were stored in darkness,not exposed to light.IMO,it's just not worth the risk to refill cartridges.

I've also read that some ink-jet cartridges have an IC chip inside to prevent reuse.

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Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

This is true. You can actually buy 'resetter' circuits that will reset the cartridges after you refill them. I found this out after refilling a cartridge, and having it fail to print. This appears to be a new thing, because I have refilled them in the past.

However, I've given up the refill route, and started using

I can get 5 off-brand cartridges for the price of

1 epson cartridge, and the shipping is less than the sales tax I'd pay. Also, I always ruin something with an ink stain when I try to refill a cartridge.

--
Regards,
  Bob Monsen

Reading, after a certain age, diverts the mind too much from its
creative pursuits. Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain
too little falls into lazy habits of thinking.
    Albert Einstein

Indeed. ISTR that HP uses a serial number in the cartridge and the printer keeps track of the score for the last three or so cartridges seen.

So, if you have 3 empty ones to 'use' in between it will have forgotten about the cartridge that you refilled and that will work again.

Don't know about the different models though.

I've also seen that there are commands to send to teh printer to set the date. I'm wondering why, but it could be to reject cartridges that have expired.

I'm glad the EU has adopted ruling that prohibits anti-refill mechanisms; but it seems no-one has started to beat up on the manufacturers.

Even Canon, whish had no anti-refill measures at all (but sued clone manufacturers) has started doing so.

Thomas

According to the Epson c84 service manual (which I found someplace on the Internet) they use the date to determine the last print date/time, and so whether they need to pre-charge the heads with ink, or something like that.

--
Regards,
  Bob Monsen

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own
reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he
contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous
structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a
little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity.
    Albert Einstein

Oh, make no mistake - Canon has a very significant anti-refill mechanism, at least on the BC-02. I once paid $25.00 for a reinking kit, and ink got everywhere EXCEPT into the cartridge.

Thanks, Rich

Having worked in a research setting where printheads of this type were abused for alternate purposes, I'd point out that the details of getting them to work are quite touchy. It's really an impressive amount of engineering to take an appartus that requires just the right (often negative) pressure, freedom from air bubbles, ink viscosity, clean orifice plate, etc and package it all into something the consumer can carry around in a little foil bag and then pop in and use.

That doesn't serve as an excuse for going out of the way to make the things even harder to refill, or for rejecting refilled cartradges, but it does suggest that even absent these things getting good results without making a mess can be difficult.

BTW, the original deskjet head isn't hard to drive... I forget the details but a 12-14 volt supply, a mosfet, and something to generate a pulse of the right width and you have one jet going. This can be quite usefull for the class of physics experiments that used to be done with a spark gap and thermal paper. It's pretty easy to burn out that jet... but you have a lot more to play with when you do.

Since you mentioned the original DeskJet: These were a perfect example of how easy and reliable the technology could be. I have refilled their cartridges with ordinary fountain pen ink. The pot of ink cost about $5 and contained enough for a dozen refills. You could refill these things

3-4 times until the nozzle area was literally scraped off. Also, the print quality of the original HP DeskJet was IMHO about on par but much more consistent than that of "modern" inkjet printers. Oh, and I bet that old DeskJet of mine must have cranked well over 10,000 pages. It's still there because I could not bear throwing it out since it wasn't broken, just replaced by a faster LaserJet. None of the new ones ever came close.

So, where is the "progress" here? My personal take is that the "modern" inkjet printer I bought a little over a year ago is also going to be the last inkjet printer I ever bought. Where have the HP engineers gone who designed 'the good stuff' like the early DeskJets, indestructible calculators like my trusty old HP11C and so on?

Regards, Joerg

Rich Grise wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@example.net:

After I re-inked my Canon BJC-620 cartridges,they leaked thru the printhead,destroyed it. I tried everything to seal the cartridges to keep them from leaking.

AND the black ink faded to brown after a couple of months,even with docs stored in darkness.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Why not just toss it into the trash and get a laser printer?

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it\'s the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Hello Spehro,

For color that can become rather expensive.

Regards, Joerg

The progress is that the printer now costs $29.99 on sale. The point is to sell cartridges; it's like giving away shavers, and selling razor blades. Given that fact, one can't expect these things to last as long as a printer that cost $500 10 years ago. I've replaced my c86 twice on warranty, and my c84 once. You need to talk to a tech, and they just send another one (after first asking whether you are using 'genuine' Epson cartridges.) Postage is free. They have a 1 year warranty. Not too bad for printers that cost me $40 at Frys. And one of these failures was probably due to Frys repackaging broken stuff, since it was dead when I got it home.

--
Regards,
  Bob Monsen

Yes, we have to divide up our time like that, between our politics and
our equations. But to me our equations are far more important, for
politics are only a matter of present concern. A mathematical equation
stands forever.
    Albert Einstein

Not so bad these days. They start at $250 US, and promise no more clogged printer heads or expensive ink wasted on head clean cycles.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it\'s the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Exactly. The bean-counters realised that making the perfect inkjet was a poinless exercise in engineering, however "H.P." that might have been. From the marketing point of view, consumables was the money-spinner. And that explains entirely their views about refilling, especially with aftermarket ink - all of a sudden their cashflow dries up faster than an Epson printhead nozzle. So they "chip" the carts.

I mentioned in another post that I was able to get a cartridge filled by using a 10$ ink refill kit by Nu-kote. Seems to work fine for its purpose(quality might be a little degraded but can hardly tell the difference... not sure if its the ink or print quality). Anyways, only took

1 min to refill with no mess. What I'm curious about is the "pressure" aspect of the cartridges. The instruction manual mentions that if your cartridge leaks then it is due to the pressure but why? How would the printer keep the presure stable in the cartridge without some mechanism inside it(which I didn't see one when I tore it apart)? and wouldn't the pressure change as the cartridge was used up? Is it just a gimmick? I didn't seem to have this problem but just curious as to why it might exist.

Thanks, Jon

Until the toner pukes all over the transfer rollers on some color lasers, requiring premature replacement of said cartridge. We went through 3 in a printer at work, at $115 a pop. Not a warranty item either, apparently.

I have a Canon 4100/4300 and have been refilling the cartridges for a number of years with no problems. I have found that one needs to watch the quality carefully; any dropout especially white lines thru a color block means *IMMEDIATE* ink refill is mandatory, else the resistive heaters in the head will burnout verrrry fast and one will have to replace the head.

The mention of pressure is bogus, except in inking systems that have

*large* tanks of ink that feed the heads thru long tubes.