Taxpayer dollars down a black hole

This makes HHS management of PPACA look like a model of efficiency:

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Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred
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That is the painful macro view. Just look at any individual military project, i.e. a micro view. Nothing gets done on budget. The Gerald Ford carrier is a prime example.

Reply to
miso

the usual political response to stories of money wasted on bureaucracy is a new layer of bureaucracy that controls and documents that the money used on the old bureaucracy is not wasted

it creates jobs, both sides want to say they created jobs even if it using government money, one side just prefers those jobs to be creating stuff painted in camouflage so that they won't be called socialist

I'm sure there is also a lot of stuff on the military budget for appearance that other countries would put on a different budget

the US military is huge but the budget is gigantic

-Lasse

Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

O & M dwarfs R &D and development and acquisition costs. The point of the s tory is the DoD has refused to comply with the law for 20 years, and has be en defrauding America for decades. They don't want to development an accura te accounting system because they know that will be the end of a large part of their wasteful activities. The President can rectify this atrocity. It would be reasonable to give them a year to fix the problem, which is more t han ample time given their resources, after which, failing to comply with t he directive, he can order a general stand down of all of their activities, except combat operations, combat support, and relief operations, fire the JCS, the SecDef and all of his deputies, and start firing generals, admiral s, and SES, until he gets the people in there who will produce results.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

that's a awful lot of powerful people and companies making lots of money to start a fight against

don't you think he has enough trouble already with that another project of his that involves powerful people and companies making lots of money

-Lasse

Reply to
Lasse Langwadt Christensen

He's already co-opted the industry side, the remaining opposition is just Tea Party windbags which he's going to have to deal with regardless of the issue.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

OK, since you started some data cherry picking: How many aircraft carriers did we have at the beginning of WW2, and how many at the end? What the age of our oldest carrier? What is the average age? Then, with that in mind, explain again just how bad the problem of a new carrier is.

?-)

Reply to
josephkk

Do the research and let me know.

Other than ISR, the DoD breaks things and kills people. The question is just how much do we need to devote to breaking things and killing people. A base in the US provides defense of the US. Cross the border and expect things to be broken and death. [OK, no illegal alien comments needed here.] A carrier is to break things and kill people in a foreign country. So the USAF and US Army is defense, but the Navy is for those that believe offense is the best defense.

It just isn't the 12 billion to build the carrier, but staffing it and operating it is an ongoing expense.

Reply to
miso

Ho hum...So what else is new....

Reply to
Robert Baer

"...just how bad the problem of a new carrier is."? uh,...doesn't that mean we have NO friends, so we can't use nearby land?

Reply to
RobertMacy

That is often the case. Remember 1986?

Reply to
krw

The number I heard is more like $15M daily, this article gives another number, maybe it is an average of underway and port:

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Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

with

is.

You made the claims, you provide the backup.

Even today, lack of naval power is debilitating in diplomacy. Thibk that through.

?-)

Reply to
josephkk

is.

miso seems to think that maintaining at least some semblance of having a fleet is a bad idea. Then miso began conflating using non-US territory with the issue of building a new carrier. Don't expect me to know why that was done.

?-)

Reply to
josephkk

You're talking about gunboat diplomacy which just proves his point.

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They can call it whatever they like, but it's all gunboat diplomacy. Notice the carriers have been largely unnecessary when it's used. As for disaster relief, like we're doing in Philippines right now, Military Sealift Comman d puts WAY more relief supplies and equipment on the scene than the 'for sh ow' carrier.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

If the U.S. does not have alliances in the region allowing the use of their territory for military operations, then , by definition, the U.S. does not belong in that region of the world.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

It is true that everyone always knew this was going on, but the details rev eal the total hypocrisy of the anti-Obama crowd using the HealthCare.gov fi asco as some kind of pivotal event. The story talks about the AirForce dump ing a $2B accounting program that was too messed up to salvage, and that is not a projected $2B, that is after actually spending $2B on it. And that's just one case, there are hundreds of others.

Reply to
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred

Societies keep the possessions they have the power to hold, not the ones they hold by right. Google for "realpolitik".

The West agonizes over a whole lot of stuff that the rest of the world laughs at. Our grandfathers would have laughed too.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Reply to
Phil Hobbs

You make the naive assumption that "that region of the world" is somehow isolated from this. The real world has been smaller than that for a couple of hundred years, Mr. Chamberlain.

Reply to
krw

eveal the total hypocrisy of the anti-Obama crowd using the HealthCare.gov fiasco as some kind of pivotal event. The story talks about the AirForce du mping a $2B accounting program that was too messed up to salvage, and that is not a projected $2B, that is after actually spending $2B on it. And that 's just one case, there are hundreds of others.

If these were slave ships--excuse me, "Marketplaces"--that I were being forced to serve on, I'd be equally upset.

Otherwise, it's just another example of the folly of centralized government. We tolerate it, in part because at least it's for a legitimate, authorized purpose of our central government--the common defense.

But yes, of course it should be better.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
dagmargoodboat

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