Suggestions to solve this problem..

[snip]

Blood vessels way below surface, or visible?

...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at

| 1962 | | | | America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave | | | | Due to excessive spam, googlegroups, UAR & AIOE are blocked! |

The vein is probably far below the surface and fairly small. A clue is that the phlebotomist usually has problems doing a blood draw on the inside the elbow. It's no fun being off the end of the bell curve.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

I don't know what's changed, but in the last few years they have no trouble hitting my veins on the first try. Used to be a nurse would look at my arm, then go get the oldest most experienced nurse in the place.

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
|                                                                |
|        America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave         |
|                                                                |
|  Due to excessive spam, googlegroups, UAR & AIOE are blocked!  |

The purpose of my rant was to unload my frustrations with several pieces of VoIP hardware, which have resurrected nightmares of systems that I have successfully avoided for perhaps 35 years. I'm somewhat involved in the computer business and am rather familiar with how things are done. I'm not so familiar with telecom terms and current practices. Attempting to learn how to setup several SIP phones has not been a gratifying experience.

For example, what other industry would go out of its way to abbreviate or acronymify everything, even when not necessary? The Zoom 5801 has everything abbreviated on the front panel, even though there's plenty of room to spell out the terms. It also supplies a decoder chart pasted on the bottom of the unit. They first make it look like telco hardware on the front, and then offer a concession to the computer users by explaining the abbreviations on the bottom. Perhaps they should offer several decorative front labels? One for telco, one for computer, and one for humans?

In 1956, AT&T signed a consent decree with, among other things, prohibited them from going into the computer business. I was told to never use the term "computer" in any communications within the Bell System. Any hint of AT&T dealing in computers was expected to attract regulators and other undesirables.

Since the divestiture, things have allegedly loosened up and mentioning computers is apparently acceptable. Unfortunately, the legacy of the 1956 consent decree is apparently still with us, as exemplified in some of the documentation I've been reading.

Thank you for the history and clarification. So far, that's the most coherent explanation I've read describing the terms. Unfortunately, the supplied documentation isn't anywhere near as clear. To make things worse, the docs mix in some computer lingo and talk about "bridging" (a computer term) between ports.

True. Programming would imply that one did that on a computer, and AT&T was no interested in being accused of dealing in computers. So, in addition to the term "computer", "programming" was also discouraged. All the setting for a telco customer was called provisioning. When I do the same thing on a VoIP adapter, using a web browser instead of a teletype machine, it's called programming if I'm wearing my computer hat, and provisioning if I'm wearing my telco hat.

Fairly close. I worked in the battery room at the Melrose frame in Smog Angeles. Later punching wires at the Kester frame. A bit of microwave experience back at Melrose. I had to go back to skool or I would have been drafted. If you have problems with my credibility, search Google Groups for posting with my name. (Hmmm... 19,800 articles).

True. However, IBM convinced the DoJ that this also included computers. To maintain the monopoly, AT&T was limited to providing only phone services, and not branching off into adjacent businesses.

That was also my impression. I had this vision of Ma Bell herself, waiting patiently for 35 years, to unload her baggage train of acronyms, abbreviations, and cryptic terms, upon me. Diving into the web based configuration of the VoIP adapters was like opening a Pandora's Box of long forgotten evil upon the world. Along with the dinosaurs, I had expected such rubbish to have been long extinct and replaced by more coherent and specific computer terms. Instead, it's Deja Vu.

The ranting never really ends.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

AT&T sold own-brand personal computers (e.g. the 6300) back in the 80s. That consent decree must have been dead by then, and now it's ancient history.

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

But "bridging" is also sometimes done in the analog world, such as "bridging" together two compatible phone lines, or bridging one hybrid port to another, etc.

Battery rooms of large offices were interesting places. The huge motor-generator chargers were impressive.

It actually went a bit further. We were admonished to NOT provide anything with a computer type interface. This was hard for our people to understand and deal with.

From 1984 until I retired, I was on the Transmission Engineering staff and was involved in the separations in numerous ways. One of them was to be sure that Marketing and our other engineering groups did not create any violations in service offering or in the Technical Publications that were written to support the various services. Too many people, including, unfortunately some lawyers, tried to apply logic to the FCC order instead of the letter and spirit of the law.

Can you give a link to some of the evil documents? I suspect much of it is aimed at Engineers rather than end users. As such, digital or not, transmission coding and signaling and the like must be included.

True. But it's the new service providers who are giving or selling to you, the poorly written documentation of their services and equipment, not the telcos. I think there is a propensity for their writers to write a blog showing how smart they believe themselves to be, rather than to write in simple terms that can be easily understood. In the Technical Publications I wrote, I always included a tutorial. The industry owes such thing to their customers.

Rant to the people who sell you the service and equipment.

Thanks for the useful reply. Yes I was thinking of a set up that detects an open window, possibly with reed switches that will work with the room stat in series to prevent the heating turning on. Employees will then naturally check for open windows if they feel the heating isn't coming on...I have tried the nagging and reasoning, but we are dealing a a large percentage of women who, if they are warm, open windows and leave the heating on! A simple wired system is easy enough, but I was looking at a wireless solution, possibly with the remote sensors being solar powered with battery back up.

Steve

(snip)

Your rants are unbalanced. Also--rants, like comments, don't nest. (We now return you to your regularly scheduled fascist thread.)

Cheers,

Phil Hobbs

rant

But, but, but......... rants are NEVER balanced

Loop

Late at night, by candle light, "Mr Sandman" penned this immortal opus:

Nagging and forcing will only result in bad feelings, though with "a large percentage of women" reason seems to be pretty much out the window too. First find out why they do it. For all you know it may be bad air. If it's really due to temperature just turn down the stat. With women you never really know. If one feels too hot and opens a window the one next to her will screech about the cold. Watch out for the pecking order.

- YD.

--
Remove HAT if replying by mail.

They should've kept to it! Have you ever looked at AT&T syntax assembly? It's U-G-L-Y! :-o

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

I hadn't heard the term used for intentionally connecting two lines. Certainly "bridged taps" which are a different animal.

The CO where I worked at didn't have a motor-generator. It was adjacent to the Smog Angeles main public library, where the noise and vibration would have caused problems. It was several really big transformers, cabinets full of some kind of rectifier, and some oil drum capacitors. Lots of big rheostats, gauges and dials. It's been so long that I don't recall how it was regulated (or even if it was regulated). There was some construction in progress around the battery room, so I was re-assigned to a crew that was "reinforcing" cable bundles into the Kester Ave CO.

They're not evil or even horrible. They're just useless. I'm playing with a Zoom 5801 FXO/FXS box.

and a Linksys/Sipura SPA-921:

Both devices were apparently intended to be installed by a qualified and experienced dealer, using pre-configured templates dispensed with a TFTP server or web server using XML. I'm not sure who is the target audience of the docs, but it's certainly not the independent end user trying to make it work without dealer assistance.

I did manage to find some useful hints and setup guides scattered all over the network. Also, copies of dealer only utilities, which were somewhat useful.

In the distant past, I taught myself Cisco IOS command line programming. I've dealt with routers, switches, and gateways, where the configuration was in the Chinese dialect of English. I've dealt with really creative SNMP MIB databases. I've even read the IEEE

802.11 docs without having my brain turned to mush. I survived all these things which required heroics beyond that of the common user. However, none of these are as cryptic and incomprehensible as the settings in these VoIP adapters.

I also interrogated my supplier as to the possibility of a VoIP adapter or phone that was intended to be programmed (provisioned) by mere mortals. Nope. He said they were all essentially the same.

I'm not ready too blame anyone for my inability to get the VoIP adapters working. I think this is just a case of someone taking the firmware source code defines, and converting that into a giant table of settings. That works, if the target reader is as knowledgeable as the original programmer. Let's just say I'm disappointed.

I've written a few manuals on stuff I've designed. I've also edited quite a few manuals and one book. I tend to learn more by examples than by explanations. Therefore, I ask for short explanation, but good examples. My recommended pattern is:

1. One simple example to show the syntax.
2. One useful example to show what can be done. This example should work and actually do something when invoked.
3. One complex example to show what a power user might find useful. This has worked well in OS manuals and application manuals. It's a marginal fit for hardware manuals. Some things, like dial codes, would do well with 3 such examples. However, the various on/off settings don't need such detail.

Well, the Linksys came from a vendor on eBay who probably doesn't know anything. The Zoom came from a friend in the VoIP business who is too busy to answer my questions, but is trying his best to do so anyway. You can correctly accuse me of causing my own problems, but that's that way one learns how this stuff works. (Note that my domain is LearnByDestroying.com). I've jumped in with both feet into all manner of unfamiliar waters and never had anywhere as much difficulties as with these two VoIP adapters.

Midnight and I'm dead tired. Enough ranting for now....

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Never ascribe to conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by stupidity (as regulatory incompetence) or simple thoughtlessness.

I read the documents and agree they are not written for the end-user, but for a service provider's trained technicians. Even at that, they are only top-level information about the capabilities, about what I would expect of a Marketing document written for a service provider's Product Selection organization. Going further, they committed the unforgivable sin of using acronyms without giving the definitions. I also note that no diagrams were included, that could have clarified issues.

I don't think the hardware vendors give a rip about potential installations by end-users. If I am wrong, then their documents need to be re-written by someone more capable that who they used.

I downloaded the .EXE ATA manager, and will move over to the XP side of my Mac and see what I can learn. Unless I hear different from you, I assume you wish to connect the phones in your home wiring, to the (FXS port) of the "box."

Do you have a PBX? It would need to be connected to the FXO port.

Do you know the codec required by your service provider?

(snip)

I should have known better, but hope springs eternal.....

The ATA Manager is just a tiny app that looks on the local network for the Zoom box to access its Manager functions.

So........ I have no access to it's setup options.

At one time, you mentioned options for DID Trunks. If you have no PBX, you do not need to be concerned with this. But here's what they do.....

Direct In Dial (DID) service allows a call from the Public Tel Network to be forwarded to a particular PBX station without operator intervention. Assume a PBX has station numbers in the 6000s. At the CO the directory number for your "DID Trunk group" will be, for example, 345-nxxx, where n=6 if you elect to receive 4 digits, or it is not received if you elect to receive only 3 digits, and xxx = the PBX station number.

So, when someone calls 345-6789, either digits 6789 or 789 will be forwarded to your PBX in your DID trunk group and your PBX will switch it to station

6789 and ring that station.

Well, I have Vonage, and it works well... now... 8-)

I used to be on Adelphia/Time Warner, and Vonage sounded terrible, so I moved to Verizon DSL. Now it works fine. But setup, in and of itself, was never a problem...

Charlie Edmondson Engineering

Went there, read "read me first", "quick install", and "technical reference", no arcanum found. Lots of useless settings in the "tech manual" and no adequate explanation of SIP provider. Basically the SIP related settings are negotiated with (or dictated by) the service provider

Lock the windows and have only one key, which the boss controls.

Also, put thermostats in the rooms, to let the occupants turn the heat down!

Good Luck! Rich