solar power economics

Bullshit! More than one dam has been pulled down because the greenies are worried about the sex habits of the Green Spotted Salmon, or some silly thing.

Yeah, the Elwa dam which is about 100 years old was torn down becayse it was so old and of no use anymore and now even the green weenies are complaining about that because of the flooding and how taking that dam DOWN has hurt fish, so I don't give them much thought. Other than that we don't hear squat anymore about problems with dams.

It's not a problem. No coal. Just clean air except for a teeny bit of fallout from Japan. Nothing to worry about.

discussing.

Mostly they put fish ladders up the side on a cascade of some sort the bypass doesn't cost enough water to be worth worrying about.

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He replied, citing two irrelevant links, but without any support or relevance to the question: euros-to-power ratio. Ergo, "clap-trap" was an ad hominen, without factual basis.

Apparently he's deleted the post.

James Arthur

Insulting your ("our"?) intelligence? Why bother?

discussing.

You may not, and I may not, but the green weenie politicians do.

You're nuts.

competitive.

discussing.

Is there a fish ladder up the side of Boulder/Hoover dam? Fish ladders are only useful for one small problem. Obviously you two have your heads in the river muck.

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In James Arthur's totally non-partisan opinion. Since the German subsidies weren't so much aimed as getting significant amounts of solar power as at kick-starting the manufacture of renewable energy generators, James Arthur is pulling his usual trick of trying to redefine the question into one for which he has an answer that he likes.

I never delete a post.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

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Ah, here it is (the missing post).

Generalizations, characterizations. No relevance to euros-per-kWHr.

James

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You said John's source was clap-trap, so I inquired about your basis for that.

I found it and responded.

-- Cheers, James Arthur

competitive.

discussing.

Ya got THAT right !!

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Why should I fall for Bjorn Lomborg's rhetorical trick of trying to reduce the German renewable energy initiative to a scheme for buying renewable kiloWatt hours?

It suits your short-sighted point of view, so you like it, but it totally ignores what the Germans were actually trying to do.

Since you suffer from no less partisan ignorance about anthropogenic global warming than you do about economics, you are blind to the advantages of renewable power sources, and and can't see that there's any advantage to society in general in putting money into schemes that will eventually make renewable energy generators a cheaper source of energy than burning fossil carbon and dumping the CO2 produced in the atmosphere.

It's a pretty dramatic blind spot. Few people with any sense share it.

You might read "Merchants of Doubt"

to find out about a few other people who seem to have put on similar ideological blinkers. The authors do regard them as dangerous lunatics, which won't suit you, but that's reality for most of us - not for you, obviously.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

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Reminding me that you approve of that kind of blinkered clap-trap. As if I needed reminding.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

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The thesis was that German PV has been costly and ineffective. You said that was clap-trap. When asked about your basis for that, we get speeches.

Reality for me is that, evidently, you don't care about or consider the cost or effectiveness of the measures you want everyone else to take, and pay for.

James Arthur

competitive.

discussing.

thing.

You don't have to admit it. Really!

Lefties *never* care about the cost (or effectiveness) of any of their silly policies, as long as someone else pays. It's Obama's hOPeiuM of the masses.

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Since krw hasn't got a clue about the potential costs of dealing with the consequences of run-away anthropogenic global warming, his own take on this is merely irresponsible right-wing silliness, as you'd expect from one of the dimmer right-wing nitwits who chooses to infest this group.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

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The thesis was that the German renewable energy initiative had been costly, which is obviously true, and that it had been ineffective, which isn't. Bjorn Lomborg tried to make the case that it had been ineffective by counting renewable kilowatt hours generated as the only relevant benefit, which completely ignores the intent of the initiative, which was to kick-start the production of renewable energy generators, and get some of the economies of scale in their production earlier than would have happened if it had been left to the tender mercies of the free market.

The thesis is simply fraudulent - whence my characterisation of it as clap-trap.

You indulge in similar sorts of fraud in your own presentation of numerical data, so it may be that you admire Bjorn Lomborg's sleigh of hand.

In fact a detailed justification that you don't want to hear.

Your carefully circumscribed outlook on those aspects of reality you condescend to consider may make this "evident" to you, but that's just in terms of you self-serving delusions.

I certainly care about the costs of anticipating anthropogenic global warming, but - unlike you - I am conscious of, and care about, the likely future costs of not preventing runaway global warming. In my judgement, it's prudent to spend money now to prevent potentially much larger expenditures in the future to deal with the consequences of run- away anthropogenic global warming when it's too late to reverse it.

You are too dim to appreciate the scientific evidence for anthropogenic global warming, and too wedded to the perfection of the free market as a solution for every social problem to accept that government initiatives to tackle it could ever be justified.

Evidently you are an irresponsible nitwit.

-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Oh, is it still running ?? I had heard that they shut that coal fired plant down recently which is why I didn't unclude that. Didn't know it was transitioning towards gas. Interesting.

There is still a small wood fired cogeneration plant in Everett, WA at the old Kimberly Clark plant but now sure how long lived that will be either since they closed down Kimberly Clark in December.

boB