Ripple harmful in this circuit?

I've got a N/O sensor which is designed to last at least 10 years. I want the switching circuit it drives to last at least that long, plus 50%: 15 years.

The sensor and circuit will be replaced every 10 years or when the sensor closes, whichever comes first.

The circuit is simple: (schematic below)

24VAC into a 4 diode bridge. NO filter cap. Sensor from + to NPN base through 10K. Base to ground through 330K. 24VDC relay coil (with diode across coil) from + to collector. Emitter to ground. Ice ~ 25mA when sensor closes.

The sensor will operate once during the 10 year interval, so the transistor switch will be off.

The question: will the long term exposure to unfiltered ripple have any deleterious effects?

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Reply to
ehsjr
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No, as long as the transistor voltage rating is compatible with possible transients. Like switching the transformer primary off.

But it gets interesting when your sensor closes.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics
Reply to
John Larkin

** The relay will buzz loudly and the contacts will chatter.

A filter cap of about 22uF is needed to reduce ripple to an usable value - you can find the minimum value by experiment.

The cap will also supress transients from the transformer when the AC supply is disconnected.

Best go for a sealed relay or the contacts may not work when you need them - depending on how many volts you are switching.

.... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

You might want to consider a diode from base to emitter to prevent reverse b-e breakdown.

Reply to
John S

If the transistor just closes a circuit, why not use a latching switch (an SCR) instead of a relay? Those are available in optoisolated versions, if the relay has to be isolated. Adding a capacitor or two won't hurt, and they DO routinely last decades.

Reply to
whit3rd

It only has to operate once every 10 years at which point the whole thing will be replaced, but you need the flyback protection diode because....

I'd sure love to know what kind of application this requirement is for

Reply to
bitrex

I am mostly involved with project with 10 years of at least guarantied time,

I would be mostly concerned with critters entering the relay contacts rather than the transistor driver life time.

Reply to
upsidedown

Where does the negative base voltage come from?

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics
Reply to
John Larkin

Ya, or moisture incursion, or repeated thermal expansion/contraction of the relay housing over temperature swings, or...

Sounds like the kind of project one would have a bit more budget on than average, it seems if OP is concerned with the lifetime of electrolytic filter caps (since apparently it won't be energized most of the time how much will electrolytics degrade if they're basically just experiencing a continuation of their 'shelf life'? idk really) they could just parallel up some MLCCs.

Ones in the single digit uF range aren't actually that expensive anymore and you'd get some inherent redundancy

Reply to
bitrex

Good point.

Reply to
John S

You mention the relay will only ever close once. Really so? Does it get tested during manufacture, during installation, etc? If yes, you might need that extra reverse diode across the relay contacts after all, to protect the npn.

Reply to
Kamen Lilov

On Sunday, July 23, 2017 at 8:15:32 PM UTC-7, Phil Allison wrote: ...

The diode across the relay may smooth the relay current enough to avoid any contact chatter - depends upon the inductance of the relay.

keivn

Reply to
kevin93

Your sketch shows the sensor contact switching 2-3mA but you write the relay coil only demands 25mA. Just wondering if you really need the transistor?

Have you checked the minimum switching voltage and current specs on the sensor contact - some need at least volts and milliamps to clear oxide films - especially critcial if the contacts are going to be open so long.

Seems to me if this contact closure is a one-time event you might actually prefer the contacts to weld on contact!

piglet

Reply to
piglet

Excellent point!

All good points, piglet!

Reply to
John S

Actually, how about a 24VAC relay and remove the bridge, resistors, and transistor?

Reply to
John S

What happens if it fails? How many people will die?

Reply to
tom

Please ignore the troll.

Reply to
John S

AC relay coils usually draw big inrush currents.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com 
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply to
John Larkin

Yes, but that may not be a show-stopper. Depends on the transformer and contact. Also, OP did not indicate how long the relay must be active after it triggers, only that it happens once.

Reply to
John S

A momentary switch from the base 10K (sensor side) to ground is used for testing the circuit.

Thanks, Ed

Reply to
ehsjr

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