Re: Vacuum Cleaners from Outer Space

I think a lot of industrial design is done by frustrated (female) real

>estate agents who once visited the Guggenheim and never recovered - >form counts; function is secondary.

I only know a few industrial designers and they're all male. Well actually, I'm not sure about one, but we won't go there.

Like my wonderful microwave oven - what idiot decided that the related >functions on the keypad should be separated into illogical groupings >so the keyboard would look symmetrical?

The idiots are usually the human factors and ergonomics consultants with LOTS of input (i.e. constraints) from the customer. Most appliances are run through tests that resemble "work flow" studies. These are recorded and evaluated. There's also input from past experience by the vendor. Note that panel layout preferences vary substantially by culture and country.

There's also some rather odd psychology that making cooking too simple does not sell. Various schemes for "instant cooking" in an oven have been tried over the years. Just throw in the turkey, shove the thermistor sensor into the turkey, and the oven will do the necessary cooking time calculations. Works great, but nobody will buy it. Unless the housewife actually does something to the dinner, it's not cooking. That's also why instant TV dinners often insist that you must defrost the contents, stir the contents, and continue nuking. Some brands insisted that you add butter or a little water. Without the additional steps, it's not cooking.

The same is true of operating kitchen appliances. When it's too simple, nobody buys it. It would be fairly trivial to bar code common microwaveable packages with cooking times and intensities. Just shove the tray into the oven, the bar code reader grabs the data, and it's done right. No thinking required. One problem is that it won't sell because it's not cooking.

Before you protest, ask yourself why automobile vendors still offer stick shift transmissions in new vehicles? It's because a substantial segment of the population think it's not driving without also shifting.

or the myriad of advertised >features you can customize can't be saved in non volatile memory?

You want the oven to be programmable? That would increase the complexity, add to the cost, increase the support load, etc. The common assumption is that you use the oven and then turn it off. At best, it may save the current time for a few minutes during a power failure. That may change as more appliances are wired into kitchen networks, but that's currently science fiction and marketing (same thing).

or >the display sits an inch from the window so you have to stoop down to >read it?

Now, that's bad. It might be double insulated. The display might be deemed electrically hot and must be separated by two insulating devices. If there are two clear plastic filters, it's possible. (Note: I'm guessing).

or the light stays on when the door is open - close the door >and condensate has no where to go.

Mine doesn't even have a light. I usually leave the door open after cooking to allow the inevitable liquids that have slopped onto the tray to evaporate.

Incidentally, there's nothing in the rules or fizix that says a microwave oven has to be a rectangular prism:

Argh. Supernews got sold to Giganews. They switched servers today. After renumbering articles, I find that all the spam I've deleted in the past month is now back. Sigh.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply to
Jeff Liebermann
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What you're describing is exactly how the Tassimo coffee makers work: You put in the coffee "pod," its bar code is read and instructs the widget as to the amount of water, time, etc. required to brew.

I suspect the lack of bar code data on products for microwaves is more of a catch-22:

1) The first microwaves with bar code readers are probably going to cost $50+ over those without, so a consumer isn't going to pay that premium unless food is already available with the bar codes 2) Getting all (or many) of the food manufacturers to sit down and agree to add a bar with cooking instructions is a huge undertaking, that's difficult to motivate if the microwave manufacturers can't point to models on the market with the bar code readers already being available and selling well.

Of course, it's not impossible -- some manufacturer has to "step up to the plate" and add the feature as cheaply as possible and try to get a couple of big manufacturers to play ball and add the codes and hopefully get enough "traction" that it catches on. This sort of risk-taking is not exactly common in an industry where margins are already pretty razor thin and the basic product has remained unchanged for decades now.

(The old Gemstar VCR+ system is an interesting case study here... I think one of the things that really let it take off was when they marketed a model that could be programmed to your specific VCR over the phone. The guy who designed that model was here on sci.electronics umpteen years ago now, and mentioned that it was dirt cheap -- a microphone, op-amp, and a few discretes feeding the microcontroller -- but completely eliminated the biggest support hassle they'd had with the original model where you had to type in the right "magic numbers" to get the controller to know how to control your specific VCR and many people would end up not doing it correctly and then calling up Gemstar when the system didn't work.)

Back in the '80s most microwaves actually had a lot of programmability. I remember the instruction manual for my mother's first microwave (a huge Sharp combination microwave/convection oven, temperature probe included, could sense steam, etc) -- it was nearly 100 pages! I was pretty surprised when I bought my first microwave in the '90s that -- while it was much, much cheaper than my mother's -- the programmability had been seriously reduced.

---Joel

Reply to
Joel Koltner

Bullshit. Manual transmissions cost less up-front, get better mileage, and require less maintenance than automatics. They are also better in crappy driving conditions.

--
Keith
Reply to
krw

But depending upon the vehicle, it actually reduces trade-in and re-sale value if the car or truck is a manual transmission.

Me, I don't care. I can drive an automatic or a manual with no trouble at all.

Reply to
T

Depending on the vehicle, it actually increases the trade-in and re- sale value. It's doubtful that the reduced trade-in (only fools trade cars in) on any car is more than the initial cost of the automatic transmission, forgetting any repair costs.

As can I, though all of our vehicles have bee automatics for a while[*]. I think my last manual was a '90 Plymouth Voyager. I could have bought a manual on my truck, but my left knee often gives me trouble so SWMBO convinced me to buy an automatic.

[*] Middle age, I guess.
--
Keith
Reply to
krw

Right. They offer marginal superiority and a small discount in cost.

If you download and look at the charts in the 2008 fuel economy guide at: (3.7MBytes) you'll see that for those vehicles that have both the manual and automatic transmissions listed, the mileage is almost identical.

Today's automatic transmissions and torque converters are considerably better than those of the past. Good enough that the gas mileage tests show at most, a

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

My fav is automatic. I think it's macho to have a free hand to smoke a cigar, hold a cell phone, eat a burger, fondle the girlfriend and turn down the radio during loud commercials :P Being a lazyass guy, I don't believe in 'working' a vehicle. Power windows, power steering, power locks make a vehicle less work to operate. Gimme power cup holders :P I sometimes think stick is for guys that are still kids pretending to be race car drivers.

Found this interesting bit: Can someone race using a car that has automatic transmission?

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The V10 Dodge Viper is manual.

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I'll ask for the automatic :P The spot for the stick can be a coffee holder. :P

D from BC British Columbia Canada

Reply to
D from BC

Why would you want to use a word that signifies using the exhaust gas of an internal compution engine to compress the intake air and apply it to an oven? Bcause the manufacturers of 486 PCs did?

Then again, "convection oven" is an odd term for an oven with a fan...

Reply to
Guy Macon

Driving in stop and go traffic prohibits me from using manual. Using an automatic is much better pulling a heavy load. But, all large trucks have sticks. Do they use clutches ?

greg

Reply to
GregS

When turbo ovens first hit the home market in the early 80's I'm almost certain the term TURBO was the norm. They were usually combined with the microwave but the cost made them unpopular. Like the one I have recently bought is worth about $500, but I got a discount.

greg

Reply to
GregS

I wonder if ultrasonics could help out in heat absorbtion inside the oven.

greg

Reply to
GregS

Like a lot of well intentioned, logical seeming , things, the execution is way below the promise . . .

I have to disagree there. TV dinners are still in foil trays and they probably do shield microwaves - in some ovens more than others. (like my no turntable budget one of years past)

Even with all the cooking aids there's still plenty to do if one is cooking so perhaps a temperature probe isn't all that useful - and it has to be pretty rugged to withstand washing and the connector is in a poor environment so that's another fairly expensive addition to an oven.

Doesn't sound eco friendly either so I wouldn't buy it.

To downshift on long grades, when towing a vehicle, to save gas, and to have better control? And - its way cooler and sounds better if that's a consideration.

The silly thing already has a microprocessor, I wouldn't ask for more programmability just that if they include a clock - it should maintain time when power is interrupted and the already programmable gee-whiz stuff shouldn't be lost every time there's a power glitch or they become useless.

I can't see any reason for it. Only one window and the glass of the vacuum fluorescent display. Condensate is a problem and maybe moving the display away from the window was the only easy way the airflow could keep the window clear(?).

Someday I'll have to work on it - and disconnect or mute the damn beeper - still useful for the non tactile keyboard, but I'd sure like it to stop beeping when I open the door (like I need a buzzer to remind me that something that sounds like a fighter jet warming up is finished cooking)

Condensate is poorly handled, and from the FAQ section of the manual I get the impression I'm not the first to notice it. I had to put a tray under the leaks - after discovering it was destroying the finish on the cabinet it is on.

I got tired of looking at the lighted cavity while waiting for the liquid to evaporate, ground off the "tamper proof" screws and rewired the light into the safety interlock circuit. The light went off when finished cooking only to come on again when the door opened - useful to see, but it could use a timer to shut if off when the door is left cracked open.

I don't think I've seen a uwave without a light. Even my, all but useless 500 watt - no turntable oven, had a light.

That looks unsafe to me I figure the microwave part is either a misprint or they use microwaves to excite a glorified hot plate?

That's interesting news. I wondered why my ISP's news subscription keeps jumping around - and groups suddenly have no posts in days.

The newsproxy filters work - filtering by domain. But lately I notice they haven't caught any spam so perhaps Giga/Super is applying their own filters

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Turbo for "turbulent" air?

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My last "stick" was an '83 280ZX. Really tiring in bumper-to-bumper traffic on the "freeway".

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
         America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
Reply to
Jim Thompson

My stick..

formatting link

greg

Reply to
GregS

What year is that? I also had a '77.

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
         America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
Reply to
Jim Thompson

77

I bought it new.

Reply to
GregS

So did I. I think that was one of the best model years.

Unfortunately I was T-boned by a red-light-running dumb broad at 18th Street and Highland (Phoenix) in September of 1982 :-(

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
         America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
Reply to
Jim Thompson

In article , D from BC says... a manual transmission.

bah, you can do all that when driving a stick too.

Yeah all that stuff that will eventually break.

Reply to
T

My last was a 1992 Toyota pickup. Good little truck, but driving it on I-93 in Boston wasn't fun. My left leg was noticably larger than the right since I was pumping the clutch all the time.

Reply to
T

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