Re: acquiring UL and CSA docs without spending $1000000000

Certainly no-one in Europe seems to check the validity of CE marking. It's been

>a gift to the Chinese who can't directly be prosecuted for non-compliance but a >serious cost for native manufacturers.

When CE violations are detected the EC blocks imports of that item - not sure if they block anything from that manufacturer, which would be more sensible. Does America really check the paperwork trail for every import?

Comment on another point raised here: the point of UL etc certification is usually insurance based. Don't forget they're called Underwriter's Laboratories, ie they certify that the manufacturer has an audit trail proving product X is made to a particular design which has been cross-checked by UL as meeting the standards which have been found, through numerous sad accidents, to make things reasonably safe. (I often wonder how many people die to give doctors one cure.) European certification works along similar lines but violation inspections are generally complaint-driven, as I understand the FCC rules are, ie no inspection until someone complains - but the people most likely to complain are competitors saying "Acme Widgets is cutting corners, slap their wrists". Alas the competitors are usually cutting the same or other corners so are unlikely to rock the boat lest a mud slinging contest ensue with no winners.

So, are you saying that UL actually batch check every imported item and every home produced item for violations? From what I've seen, UL are vastly undermanned right now.

So a lot of people just buy a spool of CE stickers, which is cheaper and a lot easier.

Interesting practical American approach. Personally I've found the CE standards much easier to use than UL ones, largely because the 3rd party certification authorities are engineers who are allowed to use common sense to interpret standards, rather than less experienced staff who are not allowed to deviate from the *letter* of the holy specifications. Also you can ring them up and they'll answer the phone.

Reply to
FrogBoggler
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A manufacturer is allowed to self certify. I should say SOME manufacturers are.

CE and UL certs do NOT cost what the OP posted in the title.

Manufacturers in the US are also allowed to self certify in some cases.

The last place I worked at was one such example. After a few sessions with UL where we taught them about our industry (high voltage), they then allowed us to self cert SOME of our products.

I notice doctors looking at patient saying "Oh, you have a cold." or " Oh, you have the flu." I wish they would take a saliva swipe in EVERY case and have it looked at. They might even find something they didn't know about. They could certainly make better statistical analyses.

A perfect example is Howard Stern. He offended many people in his early years of total retardedness, but when ONE person complained, the FCC nailed his ass.

Ms Jackson should have been fined a couple million, as well as her culprit in their "wardrobe mishap". Thanks to them, we are all back on the 7 second minimum delay on live broadcasts.

Wardrobe malfunction my ass. They knew exactly what they were doing, and it was the FederTard's idea. It is obvious.

I had a box of 1000 1/4" x 20 tpi x 1" hex head grade six bolts. They twisted off the heads like taffy. Grade six is hardened. A real grade six bolt would snap off.

One of the benefits of having a dad that worked at the Cincinnati Milacron when I was a kid.

If an importer puts the UL logo on a product, then they likely scrutinize it at some point.

Most companies self certify these days.

Stickers, molded into the case, etc. Doesn't matter. What matters is if the product would pass a cert exam.

You should try to see how hard getting CSA certs are! They throw it off the dock at the rear of the building. If it stops working, it fails.

Reply to
ChairmanOfTheBored

The question was about the cost of the standards themselves, not the certification process. If you're a small manufacturer, buying copies of all of the applicable standards so that you can self-certify may be more expensive than contracting to an established test lab which already has the standards.

Even if you're contracting out testing, you still need to have some clue as to the requirements so that you can design something that has a chance of passing.

If you live near a university with a decent EE faculty, they will probably have copies all of the important standards. Some of them offer short courses which include access to the library (and others don't exactly have airport-level security at the entrance; they often tend to be more concerned with ensuring that books don't go missing than checking that "outsiders" don't get to browse the reference section).

Reply to
Nobody

In fact, at least in Georgia, state university libraries are open to the public -- visitors can't check books out, but they can use them where they are. After all, they paid for them!

They are of course very concerned that expensive books don't go missing.

Reply to
mc

Don't most US universities require key cards just to get into buildings?

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it\'s the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

Not the libraries... at least not the state universities... you need local ID to get a library card.

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
         America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
Reply to
Jim Thompson

Not during normal business hours when there are receptionists present. Otherwise, how would deliveries be made and how would visitors get in? For that matter, students attending classes don't have key cards!

Reply to
mc

Loading docks, receiving personnel, and security desks, same as most businesses.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it\'s the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

In the Minnesota winter, you _have to_ go through buildings, so you don't freeze to death on the way to your next class. ;-) (Never did find those legendary steam tunnels...)

Cheers! Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

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