Pirated Press N Peel for Making PCB's

People who use the toner transfer method have repeatedly gotten good results using glossy inkjet photo paper with laser printers. Good ones will cost you roughly 20 cents each.

The trick is to try lots of different brands to find one you're comfortable working with. Different types of glossy paper behave differently. The original method recommends you soak the paper&board in warm soapy water and slowly peel away the layers of paper. Some work better with cold water. Some work without soaking - exactly like press-n-peel. The one I'm using works best if you peel it without soaking while it's still hot (usually between 1 to 2.5 seconds after I lift the iron).

Of course, some people feel they shouldn't be using inkjet paper in a laser printer. Haven't damaged my old HP Laserjet yet.

I think the universe will shrink into a quantum black hole and I still won't understand you DIY PCB guys. Just send your gerbers to Olimex and you'll get a complete PCB with soldermask and plated through holes for like 40$. You can't pay me enough to spend my precious free time dicking around with paper and toner and chemicals to end up with a product inferior in every respect. But it's your time to waste I suppose.

That's more than it would cost to DIY, and we won't get it for a couple of weeks. Aside from the mask and PTH, why is that better?

Besides, making PCBs is fun. You get to make something with your own two hands, and it's ready to use right away.

Is your time free? That's amazing, I've got a few projects here for you to work on! :)

I don't get it. Is 40$ that much money to get a real PCB made? I'm honestly baffled. I think if you try it once, you'll never ever waste your time and energy making a PCB, it's just ridiculous. Isn't it more fun to concentrate on the electronics than on the paper, chemicals and drilling?

I mean, how much have you spent on tools, time and materials to get to the point where you can make a PCB and be sure it solders properly, doesn't have over-etch, and how do you make anything even remotely useful without PTH? Wouldn't that time and money be better spent on electronics?

Only if you count your own time a $0/hour. Anything else makes the cheap PCB houses win out in cost.

There are places with faster turnaround than that. Alberta Printed Circuits comes to mind.

To me the mask is the hands-down best part. Without solder mask it is so easy to have a short that can cause enormous debugging costs because there happens to be a short somewhere. Again, time = money so this alone makes it worthwhile.

I'm not so sure about the fun factor. There are a million other things I'd consider doing for fun before making a PCB by hand.

James.

When I'm doing my hobby stuff, yes.

I've done both, I know the difference. If I need a small board with mostly SMD parts on it, or a throw-away board to try something, I just make it myself. It doesn't take that long, and I don't have to wait for it.

Why should I spend $40 for a board with $3 worth of parts on it, when I can make it in 20-25 minutes? My day job pays $50/hour, so any board move expensive than $25 is not worth my time to pay someone else to make, if I can (as usual) make it in half an hour.

Hmmm... when it's a hobby, and I spend weeks on the design and half an hour on the pcb? Sure.

Why spend all that time and money on electronics? Would it be better to buy a cheap knock-off from China?

Perspective. I like making stuff myself. When the effort exceeds the fun factor, and I can affort the cost/time, I send out.

Well... I make a fair number of one-off basic "hobby" PCB's that might be around 1.5" sq. for all sorts of assorted dumb projects. Shelling out 40 bucks for that kind of stuff could get mighty expensive! And the inevitable changes in design that need a new PCB would up the cost & wait time even more.

Arch

Well... I make a fair number of one-off basic "hobby" PCB's that might be around 1.5" sq. for all sorts of assorted dumb projects. Shelling out 40 bucks for that kind of stuff could get mighty expensive! And the inevitable changes in design that need a new PCB would up the cost & wait time even more.

Arch

The two prototypes were home-made boards with NO mask or silk, and both worked just fine. That's 01005 capacitors and 0.4mm pitch ICs. Besides, on parts that fine, cheap proto houses can't put mask between the pins anyway. The last board I sent out was that way for the smallest pitch parts (some 0.64mm and all 0.5mm). (and don't say "pay for better" because this is a hobby)

Yes, mask helps a lot, but it is *not* always required.

Here's the 01005 cap:

Also, some of the home-brew folks can print masks at home with modified inkjet printers.

My smallest board so far is 0.2 by 0.5 inches. That's 0.1 sq.in. It's an adapter to plug an SMD RGB LED into a breadboard.

You do realize you can put more than one PCB on your panel?

For some designs I'd let a PCB house do my board. For risky designs I sometimes like DIY.

My record DIY PCB turnaround is about 1hour. So it gets tempting..Especially on a long weekend when the PCB houses might be closed.

Well... I make a fair number of one-off basic "hobby" PCB's that might be around 1.5" sq. for all sorts of assorted dumb projects. Shelling out 40 bucks for that kind of stuff could get mighty expensive! And the inevitable changes in design that need a new PCB would up the cost & wait time even more.

Arch

When I'm doing my hobby stuff, yes.

I'm

ever waste

I've done both, I know the difference. If I need a small board with mostly SMD parts on it, or a throw-away board to try something, I just make it myself. It doesn't take that long, and I don't have to wait for it.

Why should I spend $40 for a board with $3 worth of parts on it, when I can make it in 20-25 minutes? My day job pays $50/hour, so any board move expensive than $25 is not worth my time to pay someone else to make, if I can (as usual) make it in half an hour.

the

Hmmm... when it's a hobby, and I spend weeks on the design and half an hour on the pcb? Sure.

Why spend all that time and money on electronics? Would it be better to buy a cheap knock-off from China?

Perspective. I like making stuff myself. When the effort exceeds the fun factor, and I can affort the cost/time, I send out. .

I've been doing my own boards since high school. It's a learning experience, but so? I'd rather learn from experience than never learn at all. Plus I didn't have the $40 back then.

Besides, "newbies" are hopefully starting out with simpler circuits, too, which won't be that demanding on the board.

If you need that kind of precision in board fab, yeah, have it made. Like I said, I do both, because I know how well I can make a board and when I should have someone else do it.

Let's do some calculation (converted to US$). Based on my salary my time is $7/hour. Let's ignore the time spent in CAD since I'll have to do it either way. I use the toner transfer method so let's also include cost of consumables:

Glossy paper: 20 cents. Copper plated board: $4, we won't be using all of it for a small PCB so let's assume 20 cents. Time to print = 30 seconds * salary ~= 6 cents Ironing time = 3 minutes * salary ~= 35 cents Etching time = 10 minutes (is actually less but depends on how fresh my etchant is) * salary ~= $1.20 Washing etc = 2 minutes * salary ~= 23 cents Lets assume we need some corrections (rare these days with my workflow) = 5 minutes * salary ~= 58 cents

Total cost inclusive of my time: $2.82

That's a lot cheaper than the cheapest PCB house around here at $42. And consider that the $42 price is if I pick up my PCB from the factory (actually quite near my house) so I'll be wasting my time driving there.

I decided to learn DIY PCB making because a lot of newer chips are only available in surface mount packages and neither sending out my gerber nor buying SMD to DIN adaptors were cost effective. SMD to DIN adaptors are anywhere from $10 to $30 around here so it's still cheaper to DIY my prototypes.

And the time spent "learning" the process wasn't much either. I basically got it right in a weekend. Of course, a lot depends on the quality of your materials so YMMV but once you've got it right it only takes 20 minutes to do a full PCB (depends on your etchant, Hydrogen Peroxide + Acid is very fast at room temp without a bubble tank).

that sir is INSANITY!!!

I can have a board ready to drill out an 1/2 hour after the layout is done. TOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a bench press and drill. since vias are all the same size, pin/pads etc I can drill out the entire board in under an hour (I take my time here, and some of my hobby boards are up to 8x8 in size)

then i am ready to mount and solder components, make whatever changes I deem necessary as I go along.

I gurantee you Ill have the board ready for testing the same day (in only a few hours) and considerably CHEAPER to manufacture since I have already made the investment in tools.

DJ Delorie wrote: >> Wouldn't that time and money be better spent on electronics?

Good response. I couldnt have said it better myself.

I remember the old days when people actually looked forward to getting into the guts of a project, instead of outsourcing so much of it.

FeCl is fast if you wipe it on with a sponge instead of just letting it sit in the tank, even with agitation. You can somewhat control overetching that way too, by only wiping the less-etched parts.