"PIC"

ISTM that, often, when a microcontroller seems to be the logical choice for a controller, a "PIC" is chosen as the device of choice because the development tools are largely free.

Disregarding the development costs, will a PIC dissipate less power over the lifetime of the product than another microcontroller?

--
John Fields
Reply to
John Fields
Loading thread data ...

Well....it all depends...IF the same guy programs the SAME code into all the micros and they ALL have same instruction speeds,loads,etc. then PICs are very low power. The TI MSP chips are supposed to be better, but to me it's a moot point. ANY of them can/will outlive the battery's 'shelf life' if put to sleep and god programming methods are used.

jay

Reply to
j.b. miller

Hi, John:-

There are a lot of variables- some of the on-chip PIC peripherals are not very low power, but they generally can be turned off. They have a "nanowatt" series that have some optimizations. Speaking as a factory authorized PIC consultant, I'd recommend you look at them. ;-)

However, as myself, a confirmed microcontroller agnostic, I'd say that they may not be the best possible solution in any given case. Another series you should look at is TI's MSP430 series, technically 16-bit, but they are more like an 8-bit processor in cost. Billed as ultra-low power and with lots of peripherals for such applications like LCD drivers. They also are pretty good at crunching numbers at full speed (16x16 hardware multiplier on some). No 5V or through-hole flash parts, though, IIRC.

The lowest power is probably from mask-programmed (50K MOQ) specialized chips from outfits that specialize in such devices, as you'd find in some high-end timepieces.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

Why I'm a Picoholic!

Yes, PICs are single source, but I know of no company that has a better record of making sure that there is stock out there. None of my clients has had any problems getting PICs for the projects I've designed for them.

Practical 8051's for use in a product as integrated microconrollers are not second sourced anyway are they? I mean we are way beyond using the stock original Intel clone parts! So, these are single source parts too. Not that this matters because of my fist point.

Consider that Microchip offers hundreds of different versions of these chips, and despite all that variety they all have common elements that make it easy to go to a new version.

I don't think Microchip has ever discontinued a part either. The only other company I can think of with this kind of record is Xilinx, and bravo to both of them. I have designed many parts into products that have become obsolete, it gives me peace of mind to know that Microchip is not apt to do that.

Also, consider that Microchip is actually making money in this business. It is far more likely that a company that is loosing money will abandon the business in the future.

One more bit of iceing on the cake, no single product line at present has more people familiar with it, so in the event a client of mine needs some help and I can't do it, what better part could I give them to allow another to do the work?

I think you can prob. find a PIC to do any task suited to an 8 bit microcontroller, from low power, to directly driving LCD displays, to USBs. The only thing they don't seem to have a line of super analog chip like the cygnal chips, except for the PIC1400, and that is not yet in flash technology.

Reply to
Rock

Hello John,

Tool costs are usually not a big factor unless they would be outrageously high. Any serious firmware engineer will have the proper tool set in the same way that we have our CAD tools. I found that we defaulted more to the 8051 family, i.e. the 89C51 versions for low power or noise critical apps. One reason was the abundance of available firmware specialists in that family. Also, customers felt more comfortable with this family because they already knew it. To a degree this old core is still an industry standard and some companies such as Nordic have even come out with RF chips that feature an embedded 8051 core.

Jay has a point. It depends on the capabilities of the programmer but also the application. The MSP430 could lead the pack here because it can restart its digitally controlled oscillator from sleep mode in under

10usec. But that only pays off if you can afford a reasonably low active/sleep duty cycle.

Regards, Joerg

formatting link

Reply to
Joerg

Hi,

I agree most emphatically, after desinging with Z80's for single board controllers, and then with the 8048/51 series, the PIC series blew me away. Small size, low power, lots of built in periferals, and really, really cheap.

My area is embedded controllers. One of my comercial products uses up to 19 PIC's networked together to control a rather complex machine.

As far as second sourcing, this only protects against corporate failure of the supplier, not against running out of parts. When the total demand for any part exceeds the total supply, it does not matter how many sources there are - your screwed.

--
Luhan Monat (luhanis 'at' yahoo 'dot' com)
"The future is not what it used to be..."
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Luhan Monat

PICs are single source. You might prefer an 8051 derivative. Some of these are capable of very low power these days ( and low voltage ) and have always had various power saving modes.

It's certainly my microcontroller of choice.

What's your power budget anyway ?

Graham

Reply to
Pooh Bear

Without much more information the only reasonable answer is "maybe".

Wouter van Ooijen

-- ------------------------------------

formatting link
Webshop for PICs and other electronics
formatting link
Teacher electronics and informatics

Reply to
Wouter van Ooijen (www.voti.nl

Which of the 8051 derivates with reasonable specs (let's say flash + eeprom + ram + A/D + some timers) are true multiple-sourced in the sense that the same chip is available from multiple vendors?

BTW there are some PICs from different (Chinese) sources.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- ------------------------------------

formatting link
Webshop for PICs and other electronics
formatting link
Teacher electronics and informatics

Reply to
Wouter van Ooijen (www.voti.nl

Not than 'any other', but you can get the figures astonishingly low. It is usually limited by other things (the quiescent consumption of other parts etc.). With careful design, the power levels can really be low. I have a couple of data logger systems, which sleep, and grab a reading at intervals. They run for typically two or three years on a single 3v lithium coin cell. Some of the newer 'nanowatt' chips, have more optimisations to help reduce consumption. They are also cheap, and readily available. Some of the ultra low power devices from other manufacturers, suffer from being hard to source. You can also reckon, that with the shear number of PICs in use, that if MicroChip disappeared, somebody else would be offering a 'clone' pretty fast...

Best Wishes

Best Wishes

Reply to
Roger Hamlett

They are truly elegant.

We reprogram insitu with the ~£100 "ICD2" (and the free MPLAB).

I've never seen any field failures yet.

Cheers Robin

Reply to
robin.pain

Indeed. Anyone try buying FLASH in 1995/1996? remember the great resin shortage? Besides, how many micros truly have second sources?

Cheers Terry

Reply to
Terry Given

Evolves to meet unexpected changes in requirements without needing direct interaction by the programmer?

Reply to
xray

I find the guilt, shame, and denial functions particularly useful because they can be used with any number of arguments of any data type. I never have to debug programs. I have faith that they work just fine. mike

--
Return address is VALID but some sites block emails
with links.  Delete this sig when replying.
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
mike

Bwahahahaha! ROTFLMAO!

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Jim Thompson

That's just stuff in the current popular user interfaces isn't it?

Reply to
xray

Indeed. Couldnt have put it better myself.

Cheers Terry

Reply to
Terry Given

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.