OT: Traffic Ticket Question

I don't necessarily agree with all of this. I think it's unlikely under the circumstances that the OP can succeed in having the citation dismissed altogether (the OP did make an illegal left turn, in fact) the chances are reasonable that a reduction in fine may be possible due to the presence of mitigating factors (the visibility of the sign wasn't great, and the offense was thus inadvertent).

The courts in some of the counties around here allow a citation to be contested by mail: basically, you pay the bail (which is identical to the fine), then file your arguments by mail (saying, basically, whatever you would say in front of a judge). A judge considers your argument and then rules on the case.

A lady I know got a ticket for failing to stop at a stop sign... this occurred just before dusk, she was driving west right into the setting sun (on a small road near the coast) and didn't see the stop sign. She "contested by mail", pleaded that the violation was inadvertent and cited the "sun in my eyes" as the mitigating factor.

The judge ruled that the citation was valid, but reduced the fine by about 50% because he concluded that the violation was unintentional. The OP might have a chance at a similar outcome.

(It wasn't a "rent seeking" question as far as I can tell. The stop sign's location was reasonable, under normal circumstances it would have been properly visible, and the location was one which got very little traffic. Just bad luck for her that the sun was at just the wrong angle, and that a deputy sheriff had been doing his "run" to the coastal access at that point.)

One could hope. Unfortunately I have a tumor on my Pancreas, over a critical artery, so inoperable, malignant/benign condition as yet unknown. Had PET/CT scan last Friday, so I should know more shortly.

Remember it's dash-dash space _all_alone_ on the line _before_ the sig. ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 

     Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.

I don't disagree at all. My point is the legal systems constantly uses terms that have no objective meaning and instead must be interpreted by someone. Usually it is a judge, but sometimes it is the jury. I expect you would have a more fair trial with a judge, but often the lawyers look not for fairness, but to be able to manipulate the results.

I think all of this shows clearly why the death sentence should be outlawed.

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Rick C

Uh, who's off? What country do you think that show is about? Check again.

Huh? How small a town do you live in? I've been in court(s) many times and none have ever remembered me.

Prosecutors don't care about helping you unless it is clear you are being screwed. This is clearly a Wayne Whiner asking to get out of a ticket and I wouldn't expect much pity. But as I've already said, all you need to do is create a "reasonable doubt" and the judge will let you off. The Prosecutor (likely the cop) isn't expecting much of a fight and will not likely have any evidence other than his statement. Show any real evidence that the sign is not clearly visible from where you stop before entering the road (and that has to be somewhat back from the road, I've heard judges say you need to stop behind the stop sign, pull up and stop again) and the judge will likely give you the benefit of the doubt, literally.

Where I am court costs have to be paid even if you don't go to court. You only get out of them if you go to court and are not guilty.

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Rick C

That's a tough call to take from your doctor. For all our differences, Jim, I wish you well.

John

Likewise. My Dad died of pancreatic cancer. As is commonly the case, he'd suddenly started a slow decline from robust health over a two year period before he was diagnosed (though still played tennis and cycled 20km with my son), and died a month later.

Apparently such late diagnosis is a common pattern. I hope they can treat yours.

Clifford Heath.

Unless you can find a statute that says that the sign is incorrectly placed, about none. You stand a good chance of the fine being much larger than the basic fine, too. Unless you're up against the wall with "points", or whatever, it's not worth the fight. If you are, a chat with the officer might help.

** The video clip is from the "Big Bang Theory" - Americas most popular TV sit-com for the last 8 years and also very popular all around the English speaking world.

The character you saw defending himself in Traffic Court plays the role of a university employed, particle physicist afflicted with Aspergers.

Did you not pick any accent as being Californian ?

** No I was not.

You live in a very tiny world.

.... Phil

Thanks Clifford and John! (I'm an optimistic realist ;-) ...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 

     Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.

I was speeding and got off because I showed pictures of an approach with no speed limit signs. Mitigating factors is what it is all about.

Or arguing in person might get him off entirely if he argues the sign is "defective".

You are confusing a court case with the "facts". Perry Mason would never present in court evidence his client is guilty. The prosecutor won't admit into evidence anything he thinks will help your case. Present the evidence in the light that gives your case the best chance of winning. There is nothing wrong with getting off entirely. It's fun to win too!

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Rick C

Fair chance..photos all around, left, right, some from a distance which should show at least 2 places of near-corner photos. Include at least one recognizable landmark if at all possible.

I don't agree at all. Just show the picture that illustrates your point or maybe two. Too much info gives the judge more chances to find something to use against you.

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Rick C

Well that explains the gall bladder acting up? Rotten news Jim, we need all the curmudgeons we can get. Hope you'll hang with us for years to come...

The Mayo Clinic has a "campus" in AZ, if replacement is ever a consideration.

James Arthur

Thanks! I'll try my best to keep everyone annoyed >:-}

...Jim Thompson

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| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     | 
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      | 
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    | 
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142    Skype: skypeanalog |             | 
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  | 
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     | 

     Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.

n."

Who cares if they think that's how the US is, they have probably never been here at all and most likely never even saw the inside of a courtroom here. It is totally irrelevant.

being screwed. Prosecutors don't care about helping you unless it is clear you are being screwed. "

Even then. All they care about is as many convictions as possible. You offe r to plead guilty to a lesser charge you are out of court in five minutes a nd they can move on. Or you can drag it out. That slows them down and they don't like that.

up and stop again"

Technically correct. That give pedestrians in the crosswalk a chance. Anoth er thing that most people do not know is that if you start out more than se ven feet from the sidewalk, this includes you own driveway, you treat the s idewalk as a stop sign.

Around here people don't even stop for stop signs anyway, and they don't kn ow how the f*ck to drive either. They think it means "Slow To Observe Polic e". Hell, making a complete stop in front of a cop might get you stopped fo r suspicion of something else. I shit you not. They don't know the rules of the road, they don't know who has the right of way and things like that. T hey f*ck with trucks, which is about the stupidest thing to do. Some don't even know to look before opening their car door out into the street. We got a dumb broad down the street like that and if she swings it open in front of you and you say anything she gives you a big "Fuck you". She thinks it's alright to do that. I hope someone tears the door off her car, and I reall y wouldn't mind broken legs either. Learn bitch.

I am starting to think the best drivers are the ones without a license. Can 't afford to have anything happen. I drove without and you saw the most att entive and defensive driver on the road. People get all legal, new car repl acement and all that and no matter what they are covered. They start to thi nk that proper following distance is one inch per 100 MPH. After all they g ot air bags and crumple zones, and it's all covered.

Anyway, back to the OP, there is another way than to see the prosecutor, wh ich may do not good because there is nothing to reduce to, which is to appe al to the judge directly.

Walk in there with pictures that illustrate that you cannot see the sign du e to its placement or whatever and just say "In light of this evidence I mo ve that the charge be dismissed". Could happen, it has happened.

A lawyer could probably get this done, the problem is that then you have to pay him. The fine would probably be cheaper. It may be worth it if you hav e many points on your license or are concerned about future insurance rates , but for normal people if you cannot handle this yourself just pay and get out of there.

**My god you are steaming great f****it.

The Big Bang Theory is 100% American !!

Produced and acted by Americans at Warner Bros Studios in Burbank, California.

And it is filmed in front of a LIVE audience.

The writing and acting are brilliant.

To all here:

Wot sort of six toed, swamp creature is this nutter ??

.... Phil

I was found not guilty once. My argument was that he only had one side of the story (didn't collect all possible evidence) and that the officer was negligent. It didn't help that the officer was the officer of the court that night and was being a dick. The judge had to remind the gallery that "this is a courtroom, please, if you have to talk, go into the hall" a number of times. Each time he tried to get the courtroom to quiet down, the officer stood up at attention, looking around at the gallery with his hand on his gun. The judge just rolled his eyes. It was pretty funny. When it came to my case (the last of the night) the judge was pretty pissed at the officer. Worked for me.

A prosecutor is _required_ to give you any evidence they have that will help your case. The defense has no such responsibility, of course.

** Nice idea that does not work in practice, because the accused has no clue what evidence the police may be withholding from the prosecutor.

The police are the discoverers and holders of all evidence, they chose what to investigate and ignore anything that does not help build their case.

OTOH, few accused have the resources to investigate anything. Perry Mason and his amazingly successful private detective were a work of fiction.

.... Phil

.... Phil

If the defense finds out, it's an automatic mistrial and may be dismissed with prejudice. Judges take a dim view of such shenanigans.

Which is why the defense has complete access to whatever evidence the police have.