Oscilloscope tube/display

Jul 12, 2025 Last reply: 10 months ago 54 Replies

The prices Don gave are _old_ prices. Now instead of Z80 one can use Arduino, below 4$ you can get a board and USB cable. Assuming that you have a computer that is all hardware to get started. I like Blue Pils (based on STM32), which are even cheaper than Arduino hardware and more powerful, but there is less support on the net for them. There are a bit more powerful STM32-based board at about

4-5$. For STM-32 board you probably want STLINK debugging dongle which adds something like 2$. There are ESP board and Raspberry Pi Pico, each for few dolars. The above are microcontoller board, for more processing power (and HDMI interface to display) one can get one of single-board computers. To get started you need such board and a SD-card. Small boards are available below 20$, small SD-card can cost 2.5$.

Just a little comment: if you need to generate or scan fast digital signals on processor pins, than microcontrollers are in practice faster. OTOH if you need number crunching and say have external source of data like reasonably fast ADC, then single-board computers will win.

Also another comment: programming processor can be done using very little extra hardware (beyond a computer). Many microcontrollers come with "bootloader" in "ROM". When you connect few pins in a special way and turn on the power, bootloader will start and wait for program on say serial port. So USB to serial convertor (available below 2$) and approiate program on the computer is enough to program the chip. Arduino hardware do not have bootloader in ROM, but when you buy a board it will typically come with bootloader burned at start of the flash. And typical Arduino board have USB to serial convertor on the board, so you can program the board from you computer via USB cable. Raspbery Pi Pico contains bootloader which emulates a hard disk. If you copy a file with magic name to this "disk" the effect is to program the chip. Debugging dongles, like STLINK for STM32 chips also support programming.

Above is stuff meant mainly for hobby, but useful also for professionals. If you want to go with stuff blessed by processor manufactures, then there are various developement boards at prices below 20$. You may want Segger debugging dongle which you probably can get below 100$. Osciloscope with bandtwith of 100 MHz or better can sometimes help (but most of the time information collected by programs is enough to resolve problems).

For your audio work you may want fast high resolution ADC, those may be expensive (they are defintely too expensive for me to buy them just for occasional playing).

Of course, beside hardware cost, which may be quite low there is also time. Here much depends on what level you want to work. Arduino may be limiting, but one can do simple things pretty quickly. Manufactures typically provide support libraries and examples, they can save a lot of work. Or you may wish/need to work directly with the chips, expect hundreds of pages of documentation to read in such case.

Yes. I was thinking about a simpler apprach: just distribute value in 2 by 2 square. Given largish number of points the effect could be quite good. Page linked to in one of previous messages claimed to use similar approach (large number of points and simple arithemtic for each pont) and others agreed that result was good.

Yes, with long tail of points at some moment it is cheaper to combine screen content with new points.

John was correct. The adjustments have to be made while the medium is being played (obviously the trial play-through is recorded, in case something goes badly wrong and it cannot be played a second time.) Software cannot be used to change the stylus size, stylus pressure or the tracking angles after the recording has been made so accurate monitoring of the signals in real time is essential..

Sometimes the requirements change as the record is being played-through, continual monitoring and re-adjustment is necessary. One particular type of recording is very prone to this, so I have made an hydraulic azimuth adjustment attachment that uses two hypodermic syringe barrels coupled by a length of very flexible silicone rubber sleeving; both syringes and the tubing are filled with water. One syringe travels with the pickup and operates a lever that slews it, the other is mounted on a control box.

Before playing the whole disc, tests are made at various points to determine the optimum angles and these are noted against a scale. As the disc is played, the operator gradually slews the azimuth from the control box, without having to touch the delicate playback mechanism.

<snip>

Considering how long it took the industry to mimic persistence in the LCD displays of top quality lab equipment, it is likely no simple matter.

It's lack was always a major complaint of analog users.Digital apps often didn't need anything more than representative displays.

It probably still defines whether a display is intended for toying or professional use.

RL

I have now built a Wave2 dual-input oscilloscope from a kit and connected it up to the X and Y outputs of the vector analyser. A low refresh rate shows the trace as a series of widely-spaced dots, looking almost like a photograph of a galaxy. As the rate is increased, the dots become closer until they appear as lines - but then some of the transient detail is missed altogether.

Nowhere near as useful as a CRT oscilloscope.

"A picture's worth a thousand words."

I'm trying (and failing) to imagine the image shown on the oscilloscope.

Does it look anything like this?

formatting link
73,

Maybe more like this:

formatting link
down for a video.

John

Actually, very basic persistence has offered in most digital scopes from the beginning - it was the effectiveness of the attempt that tended to be disappointing. The old monochrome TDS210 and the recently popular Rigol DS1054 both offer manually variable settings in their display menues.

Some allow this to be displayed on a PC - so you might not need a screen on the applicable equipment, just the PC interface and SW.

Fooling with these may let you know what a satisfactory display requires, or if it will ever be satisfactory, off-tube.

Sorry the Wave 2 was a bust. You might fiddle with it's settings as well, in a non-XY mode, before switching over. Not just offsets, gain and frequency. Triggering, if relevant, may be a unique learning process for any model, that can only be 'assessed'prior to XY transference.

RL

RL

I absolutely do not want to have a PC involved in any way. This is a self-contained analogue piece of equipment that just needs a suitable display.

I am mystified about the triggering, as it shouldn't need triggering in the X-Y mode. The instruction sheet doesn't explain why triggering should be needed but just lists various options.

No, not like that.

More like that video turned through 90-degrees (because I matrixed the channels into horizontal and vertical vectors). Because it is a mono

78, the audio should come out as a flat horizontal line but roughness of the groove walls adds a 45-degree pattern like the letter 'X'.

That is how it should look and how it does look on a true X-Y oscilloscope - but on the Wave2 the lines become a series of widely-spaced dots. If the sampling speed is increased, the display becomes jerky and some of the crackles I can hear are not displayed at all.

I deliberately chose a test piece that I knew was recorded with the two groove walls out of phase, which should show up as loops at the ends of the horizontal line on louder notes. As I know they are there, I can make them out but the display would be useless as an analytical tool for random records with unknown faults.

<snip>

Thank you. "Learn something new every day." So today I learned about the audio vectorscope.

73,

Machines are stupid. You'll want 'Auto' or 'free-run' and the highest frequency trace (if it makes a difference).

RL

RL

<snip>

Good question. I don't know. It happened to surface on a search similar to "show an x-y oscilloscope image of a vector analyser."

I've managed to pick up a small, cheap, secondhand Farnell twin-trace CRT oscilloscope at a radio rally; it's too big to build into the record-playing unit but it should be satisfactory as a separate unit. The analogue computer de-clicker seems to work well enough that visual analysis of vectors may not be needed for most recordings.

I also wondered it there is a way of synchronously rectifying the vertical and horizontal vectors and displaying the results on a centre-zero meter. It wouldn't be as informative as an X-Y display but it should give an indication of which way the cartridge azimuth needs to be slewed.

Join the Discussion

Have something to add? Share your thoughts — no account required.

Didn't find your answer?

Ask the community — no account required