No pain, no pair gain?

Order isdn (maybe?) or dsl. Then cancell it a few months later. No guarantees though. All depend on your situation. I would go for dsl anyway as it makes things much more smooth. My modem collects dust in the in-case-of-failure-drawer :)

This would remove me from the pair-gain queue?

Any chance I could just request they remove me from the pair-gain system?

What exactly is a pair-gain system / how does it work, anyway?

No it's translateing your will into something telco bureucrats understand :)

Well try..?

If iirc it's a box that will take two subscriber lines and put it onto on. That way telco can save money for their benefit. It will pass one subscriber through and add another by modulateing it at ~300 kHz something.

Perhaps you could threaten cable-modem Internet and VoIP phone? We dropped the local Ma Bell (Verizon) and AT&T long distance last year. Vonage: occasional poor sound quality and isolated *severe* problems, but we're saving about $1000 a year, so we're sticking with it.

--
 Thanks,
    - Win

There are many ways to do "pair gain". Some switch the copper, some modulate it. The point is that "pair gain" == *gaining* a

*pair* of copper wires from the switch to the customer by some hook or crook. It might be possible to bitch enough to get them to fix the problem (but distance may still be a problem). If there is cable available this is good leverage too.

--
  Keith

I called AT&T, and they said that, yes, if I go for their DSL, and then cancel a month later, I will be removed from the pair-gain, and will likely stay on regular (fiber+copper?) wiring.

Unfortunately, they said they can't just re-wire me by request - I'd have to order DSL first, then cancel.

In this case, I'm a bit afraid to threaten - since AT&T just gobbled up SBC, they probably could care less if I say I'm leaving, and would probably just go ahead and disable my service... they're such a big company now...

Wow, you paid over $1,000/yr in phone calls? We use phone cards for our long distance - and we're loving it. Pre-paid cell phone plan, too.

Thanks a lot for the help guys...

Michael

The motivation of the phone company to grant such wishes will likely be low. First, they are usually a monopoly, so there is no competition except cell phone. Second, they do not make money off dial-up customers. On the contrary, if that customer uses a local dial-in node of an ISP not related to the phone company they won't even make money for the many hours of line time.

Regards, Joerg

They cannot disable your phone service for any such thing. THey're still a regulated monopoly.

Land-lines in NE can be expensive[*]. Mine was $48/month, excluding long distance. I once had a second line (the first was limited to 21K or so) for another $48/month. I ditched the second line for cable (but held out digital cable until they could get me Internet service) and the first for cell phones. Each saved me money, particularly considering the "free" long distance.

[*] The People's Republic of Weenieville.

--
  Keith

They are *not* a monopoly anymore and getting less so every year (and they know it). As you've pointed out one may have the option of cell phones (we went that route), but there is also cable Internet (went there too) and Vonage (not there - no need). If it's in an area that these alternatives might work l'il Missy Bell might be *very* motivated, since they're sucking swamp water. It can't hurt to twist some levers. The worst that can happen is a "sorry". The OP has already been told that he can get DSL. Add on Vonage and...

--
  Keith

In our second home, we finally had the groundline telephone connected (we haven't been spending much time there, so cell phones have been sufficient). The installation included a large plastic box to which a fiber-optic cable from the street was attached. We only have one phone line enabled, but we can get up to four lines, broadband internet, and cable tv also if we choose to upgrade.

A while back, we had the cable tv hookled up there, and added the broadband cable modem service. Their bills always include an offer to include telephone service.

Saving a $1000/yr does seem extreme. I'm paying about $1200/yr TOTAL for _3_lines_ AND with all the bells and whistles, voice mail, caller-ID, call-waiting/ID, call forwarding, call following... yet more features than I can't remember.

...Jim Thompson

--
|  James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
|  Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
|  Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
|  Phoenix, Arizona            Voice:(480)460-2350  |             |
|  E-mail Address at Website     Fax:(480)460-2142  |  Brass Rat  |
|       http://www.analog-innovations.com           |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.      Sometimes I even put it in the food.

It's coming and may be that way some day, but in many areas not right now. Cell out here would become quite expensive if you'd ditch the land line. Just imagine you'd have to dial into the web when broadband is down. You'd hear a loud slurp and that were your "free" minutes. Gone. Cable, yes we have that but IMHO they aren't very smart in marketing and I bet Missy Bell knows that. They always tout their cheap fast Internet but when you want to take them up on it a wee footnote is in the way: You must subscribe to their TV deal to get that rate, else it's higher than Missy Bell's. Nah, not going to do that. That isn't what I call competition.

Same with TV. We don't have cable, don't want any. But Missy Bell desires part of that pie so now they want to break into that market which, whether we want it or not, is a de-facto monopoly. Meaning currently they can't. Which means the cable company can pretty much set their prices as they please.

Regards, Joerg

Many longer phone lines have equalizers in place that improve voice quality perception but totally trash modem error rates.

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster                          voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics   3860 West First Street   Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
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Please visit my GURU\'s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

Hello Richard,

Yes, I know it's coming. However, in the 'burbs it's much slower. The only fiber out here is the one that brought us DSL and that fiber belongs to the phone company.

You can get web access through the coaxes of the cable TV provider. But there is a catch. You must also subscribe to TV, else it's really expensive and not competitive, last time I called them.

Regards, Joerg

True for many areas, though they're getting smaller.

If I needed broadband for work it would justify a satellite connection. In a pinch, there is always the public library or an open WiFi connection somewhere. Maybe even a book. ;-)

Our cable company sure knows how to market high-speed Internet they do it on TV, even. ;) Our provider (like most) charges $5/mo. more if you don't subscribe to their cable TV, but it is available without a tie-in.

Cable companies have to compete against satellite too. There is no (widespread[*]) monopoly there anymore.

[*] there are certainly holes in coverage for any over-the-air service.

--
  Keith

Hello Keith,

Satellite was about $80/mo out here last time I checked. Plus it required dial-up for the uplink. Bidirectional was theoretically possible but realy, really expensive I was told.

Then you have a better deal. Good. Here they tout $24.99/mo, first three months free and all that. Then I called and was told "Oh, you don't want TV? It'll be $55/mo then." "No. thanks". DSL is $50/mo.

But no matter how you turn it, the prices aren't that different. Whenever I asked in the neighborhood people paid between $45 and $70 a month whether they had cable of satellite. Oh, want local channels? That'll be extra...

Out here the holes have been nearly closed by now. But if you wanted true untethered voice comm via cell you'd be looking at over $50/mo. IIRC that gets you over 1000 minutes, not enough for dial-up and I bet you'd also get hit with roaming charges.

Regards, Joerg

Single directional satellite is more like $30-40/month. Bidirectional is $160/mo., last I heard (a few years back) plus a few hundred in hardware. If I *needed* wideband, it's not so much money (I pay more than that for cable TV + Internet as a toy).

I wonder why that is? They still have to buy the content from the same sources. They know what the market will bear. It's not surprising they have similar price schedules. AFAIK satellite TV is a little cheaper, but not enough so to make it worthwhile switching (for me).

The TV part of my bill (all the channels) is about $130/month. I think for $90-$100/mo. I can get pretty much the same on satellite. The point is that there *is* choice; no monopoly.

My cell phone is $40/month (two for $60 with taxes and...) for 700 minutes (of which in a normal month I may use 10;) with unlimited nights and weekends. I wouldn't consider an Internet connection via cell though.

Why roaming charges? I get no roaming charges unless I leave the country (or get too close to Canuckistan).

Ok, we have choices: Phone (last mile): Missy Bell Cell Cable/Vonage

Long Distance: Missy Bell Mom Cell 10s of 1010 companies 1000s of pay-per cards Cable/Vonage

TV: Cable Satellite

Internet: 100s of ISPs DSL (often several choices) Cable Satellite (downlink) Satellite (bi-di)

Sorry, I don't see any monopoly here.

--
  Keith

Hello Keith,

Ouch! We have an antenna and the cost is, well, zilch.

With that low usage I'd look into Virgin Mobile. That is what I am using. 25c/min the first 10 minutes per day, then 10c. Or 35c/day and it's 10c for all minutes. Plus they let you switch.

Some carriers (like Virgin and yours) don't charge them. Others do and it often comes as a surprise out of the blue to people.

Ours: Missy Bell Cell (but not a lot)

LD is never a problem. Thanks to MCI cards at Costco it's 3c/min here, or everywhere for that matter. International is another issue but now MCI has a card for that, too. Wish they had a combo card with decent rates.

Same here, but both expensive. Once they really turn off the analog TV stations it'll lock many people in because the standard that has been picked is supposedly not very tolerant for multi-path (which is a really serious problem out here). Not us, we'd just quit TV altogether.

The dial-up ISPs aren't too useful for biz. Too slow. We have DSL and acble but cable isn't competivive for folks like us who don't use TV much. Satellite is much more expensive out here, only used when there is absolutely no chance to get anything else.

It's crumbling but there are quite a few people here who are de-facto stuck with DSL and with their phone line. Unless they are willing to subscribe to other services they don't really need and end up with a grand total that was higher than before.

Regards, Joerg

Hello Keith,

Hah! Now you wrote the word monopoly yourself :-)

SCNR.

Ouch!

Double-ouch!

Maybe it's time to move to Montana :-)

Regards, Joerg