Modulate HF onto LF?

Nov 30, 2006 4 Replies

I found an obscure reference which reads as follows. There is no further information given.



"One person with whom I discussed this said you can use a lower frequency carrier than the modulation. You can view the resulting signal via a 'constellation diagram' such as used in quadrature amplitude modulation and other techniques associated with modems, FSK and PSk radio."



Is this bunk, or would someone care to venture how this might be achieved?



I don't think they are referring to something as simple as superimposing a HF ripple on the LF. It seems to equate to full AM of lower frequency by a higher one, instead of the normal way around.



Awaiting your invocations.



Klaus Jensen


This is might confusing verbage. Are you questioning if you can use a low side mixer instead of a high side mixer? If that is the question, then the answer is yes, but the spectrum is reversed. The effects for data can be compensated.

Modulation of two signals is like multiplication. If C= AxB then C=BxA

The result will be identical, main signal components at B +/- C which also = C +/- A (overly simplified). But the higher frequency carrier will have sidebands of the lower carrier just the same.

Frank

See "Product-to-Sum Formulas" at

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For example, take a couple of sine waves that are functions of time and angular frequencies u & v. If we multiply them:

sin(ut) sin(vt) = 1/2 [(cos((u-v)t) - cos((u+v)t)]

The sum and difference frequencies are immediately apparent.

In the special case of AM, where the modulating signal, u, never goes negative, we get:

(1/2 sin (ut) +1) sin(vt) = 1/4 [(cos((u-v)t) - cos((u+v)t)] + sin(vt)

The first term is the sum and difference frequencies and the second term is the carrier. For example, if the carrier frequency is 100 and the modulation frquency is 10 we get the usual situation where the powerful carrier at 100 is flanked by a pair of weaker sidebands at 90 and 110.

But if the carrier frequency is 10 and the modulation frquency is 100 we get a powerful carrier at 10 while the weaker "sidebands" are still at 90 and 110.

-- Joe Legris

It sorta sounds like he was asking if you could put a wide bandwidth signal onto a narrower one by downconverting. Thus reducing the channel width for a given amount of transferred info.

The answer is that yes you can, but you totally demolish the info content in the process by unavoidable aliasing. There is no free lunch.

Alternately, he might have been talking about plain old trellis modulation.

Many thanks, Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073 Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552 rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don@tinaja.com Please visit my GURU\'s LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

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