Meter with a log scale

Yes, it's probably been around for a while. But as a typical engineer who gets caught up in customer's problems, I haven't seen a dentist for a very long time.

Mike Monett

They are definitely worth it. One site mentions a cost of $74. Another site mentions a package of 12 smaller images at $20 ea. This would save $166.

Besides being less expensive, they give a much clearer view. And you don't have to put up with a dozen X-Rays.

Mike Monett

Hello Mike,

Pretty cool. Although it isn't new, similar units have been used for diagnosing neck problems at least in Europe for a long time.

Regards, Joerg

Heh - if you haven't seen a dentist for a while, you might like to schedule a visit while you are thinking of it. Before something else comes up and you miss the chance.

When you get there, you have a choice. Now that you are getting older, there is ample opportunity for hidden infection in the roots, even if you can't feel anything now. So do you take one small X-Ray that shows a couple of teeth for a total of 12 or so, or do you go for one big panoramic view of everything? Remember, if you miss something, it *will* come back and bite you. You risk losing some teeth if it gets too far.

So call while you still have some left:)

Mike Monett

I got scanned with such a camera back in 1968, at the Melbourne University Dental Hospital - I'd got hit in the face with a (field) hockey stick, which had knocked out one tooth and broken another, as well as putting a racture line in the lower jaw.

Did give a nice panoramic picture ...

-------- Bill sloman, Nijmegen

Hello Mike,

Less expensive? Save? One xray is billed at $20 by my dentist and with his long experience all he usually needs is one or two. Somehow this reminds me of "modern" car diagnostic. Out of the blue you find a steep "diagnostic fee" on the invoice so they can amortize all that expensive computer gear. In the good old days an experienced mechanic could listen to the engine and know what's wrong. All he needed was maybe the equivalent of a stethoscope. Same with engineers. Many of my clients use highly automated EMI analyzers to find problems. I usually use a simple receiver. They are often faster...

Regards, Joerg

Hello Mike,

That reminds me. Feeling a bit guilty now. Many years ago I finally went to a dental cleaning after being urged by my wife. Afterwards the hygienist said there is nothing wrong but that he considered this not a cleaning but a gross debulking.

Regards, Joerg

Ah, Now I understand... Sloman suffered fried brains... that explains everything ;-)

...Jim Thompson

That was 2005-1968 = 37 years ago! I'm surprised the technology was that advanced. You'd think it would require an excellent X-Ray source for good resolution, fast film to get an image without frying the victim, and good synchronization to keep the film advancing correctly. I'm impressed they were able to do all that so long ago.

BTW, I hope your injuries healed OK.

Mike Monett

My impression was that the refinement was all in the mechanism, which ran remarkably smoothly (as is obviously necessary). At the time the professor of Oral Surgery and Dental Science was living in the same graduate student accomodation as I was, and had was trying out his (bad) system for re-implanting teeth on the one of mine that had been knocked out, and he didn't see any necessity to boast about the Melbourne department's panoramic camera, which suggests that it wasn't ground-breaking technology at the time.

As far as the healing went, I didn't have any particular problems at the time. The impacted fracture of the lower jaw was mildly painful for the next couple of months, and left me with a slightly wider chin which brought my facial proportions a little closer to the norm.

In the long term, the fracture line had opened up the lower jaw to bacterial infection, and I had lots of root canal infections in the lower jaw over the subsequent twenty years. This - combined with British dentistry, which can be very casual - eventually cost me about half the teeth in the lower jaw, and I'm now on my third lower partial denture, which is working well.

I still play field hockey, but I wear a gum-shield for regular play (which probably wouldn't have helped in the 1968 incident) and full face mask an helmet when I play goalee (which I do whenever my team plays in competitive games).

----------- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Once again, Jim Thompson finds a hypothesis to fit his prejudices. At the time I'd finished the experimental work for my Ph.D and was deep in the analysis of the results and starting to write the thesis. This was a slow process, but it didn't get any slower while my jaw healed up

- I didn't need prescription pain-killers, though I did get through a lot of Veganin in the first few weeks, and found that I would drink more alcohol at parties (though I reverted to my normal - low - intake when I noticed this).

---------- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

I can empathize Mike. I had two wisdom teeth extracted on two different occasions and both times one tooth healed up in a couple of days while the other caused real agony for weeks. There's a condition called a 'dry socket' where the healing flesh doesn't adhere properly to the bone, leaving the nerve exposed and painful which in turn can lead to bone spurs growing out of the gum which also hurt like a bitch. I would recommend going back to the sadist^H^H^H^H^H^H dentist who pulled them until he gets you healed up.

Bob

Thanks, Bill. I'm sorry you had to go through all that, but your experience may have helped me. I had two wisdom teeth pulled a while ago, and everything should have healed by now, but something is still not right. I think I'll make an appointment to go back to the dentist who pulled them and see if he can figure what went wrong.

Mike Monett

Thanks for the great news, Bob:)

Yes. If things don't improve this weekend I may go and see if he has any new National Geographic magazines in the waiting room:)

Mike Monett

Hello Mike,

Glad that you are in Canada. Over here there would be a card reader instead where you are invited to generously swipe your card. Shortly afterwards you'll hear a big slurping sound. A huge chunk of that goes to the dentist's malpractice insurance carrier.

Regards, Joerg

We have similar problems. I believe Ontario pays 70% of a doctor's malpractice premiums, so we all end up paying in taxes. But the rates are increasing so fast doctors are retiring early, or moving to more profitable countries like the US.

So we now have a serious doctor shortage. If you move from one town to another, it may be impossible to find a doctor who will take you. I moved from Ottawa several years ago and have to rely on a local clinic that is overloaded and unqualified to dispense anything more serious than aspirin and bandages. A new doctor is expected to move nearby in August, and I'm on the waiting list to be one of his clients. I will find out in September if I'm accepted.

I'm sure malpractice insurance is only a very small part of the picture, but Canadian medical practice is in serious trouble. Many doctors and nurses are moving south. You can listen for the number of people in white coats that say "Eh".

Mike Monett

Right - it was Peter Reid, who had separated from his wife, and had found Graduate House to be convenient accomodation while he re-organised his life.

The amusing thing about my Panorex scan was that it not only showed the impacted facture at the front of the jaw, but also a recently healed fracture in the condyles, which I'd never bothered doing anything about

- I'd had a hefty collision with another hockey player a few months before, but I'd put the subsequent minor discomfort down to cartilage damage, and thought no more about it. The medicos couldn't have done anything useful about it any event.

This strikes me as a good example of the comprehensive information you got from the Panorex scan ...

---------- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

That would have been Peter Reid, who was living in "Graduate House". He's still alive, living out Macedon way.

My father was a leading Melbourne orthodontist who stayed away from Panorex shots for many years because he had a way of aligning the lateral-oblique xrays to minimise distortion - but those can't show undistorted front and side teeth inthe same shot. Despite the rather high dosage required to take a Panorex (3 second exposure), he now says that everybody should have one, just to see exactly what's going on in every part of their mouth.

My first job as a computer programmer was in the Child Growth Unit of the Uni of Melbourne, in 1981. We processed digitized tracings of a library of xrays collected from 120 selected subjects every year to their 21st, the unit having begun in 1952. Hate to think what their xray dosage must have been - wrists, lateral and A-P skull xrays, and some Panorex shots. My boss is still alive, I'm sure he'd remember when the Panorex unit was acquired even though my father doesn't.

Clifford Heath.

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:46:44 GMT, Joerg wrote in Msg.

Bog-standard method 25 years ago. I got several of those as a kid when my teeth were all over the place.

They still do that for high-resolution images of single teeth. If we're talking about the same thing, that is. I mean when they give you a small plastic envelope with the film in it that you're supposed to hold inside your cheek right next to the tooth in question.

robert