how does this flasher stand up in the long haul!

Oct 08, 2011 35 Replies

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--- Oops...

Put the transistor in backwards to try it out and forgot to put it back.

Here it is right way up:

Version 4 SHEET 1 880 680 WIRE 144 16 -16 16 WIRE 368 16 144 16 WIRE 512 16 368 16 WIRE 512 64 512 16 WIRE 368 80 368 16 WIRE 144 144 144 16 WIRE -16 160 -16 16 WIRE 256 192 208 192 WIRE 368 192 368 144 WIRE 416 192 368 192 WIRE 512 192 512 144 WIRE 544 192 512 192 WIRE 512 240 512 192 WIRE 368 256 368 192 WIRE -16 368 -16 240 WIRE 144 368 144 240 WIRE 144 368 -16 368 WIRE 368 368 368 320 WIRE 368 368 144 368 WIRE 512 368 512 320 WIRE 512 368 368 368 WIRE -16 448 -16 368 FLAG -16 448 0 SYMBOL npn 208 240 R180 SYMATTR InstName Q1 SYMATTR Value 2N2222 SYMBOL voltage -16 144 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 2 WINDOW 3 24 96 Invisible 2 SYMATTR Value PULSE(0 25 0 1) SYMATTR InstName V1 SYMBOL diode 352 256 R0 WINDOW 0 -43 32 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -69 64 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName D1 SYMATTR Value 1N4148 SYMBOL diode 384 144 R180 WINDOW 0 49 31 Left 2 WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName D2 SYMATTR Value 1N4148 SYMBOL res 496 48 R0 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 248G SYMBOL res 496 224 R0 SYMATTR InstName R3 SYMATTR Value 2.2G TEXT -8 392 Left 2 !;tran 1 startup uic TEXT -8 424 Left 2 !.dc V1 .01 25 .001

-- JF

I once thought of a transistor as two diodes, but I was nine years old at the time.

VIZ? CLEAR???!!! Substitute resistors for diodes, and plug in Ohm's Law? That's insane.

Hilarious! Try putting 22 volts across an actual bipolar transistor B-E junction, in either direction! In real life I mean, not in Sim City.

John

That's even crazier. Now you have 25 volts Vbe on a 2N2222. Hey, let the ramp run and get to 50,000.

Makes my point: Spice is dangerous in the hands of amateurs.

John

Makes perfect sense to me; what part don't you understand?

Did you miss the part about the base being open (unconnected/floating/unused)?

add this to see the interesting part.....

.model 2N2222 NPN(IS=3D1E-14 VAF=3D100

  • BF=3D200 IKF=3D0.3 XTB=3D1.5 BR=3D3
  • CJC=3D8E-12 CJE=3D25E-12 TR=3D100E-9 TF=3D400E-12
  • ITF=3D1 VTF=3D2 XTF=3D3 RB=3D10 RC=3D.3 RE=3D.2 Vceo=3D30 Icrating=3D80=
0m mfg=3DPhilips BVbe=3D6)

-Lasse

There is a valid point or two here.

Spice can lie about real life; you've got to be careful to get useful sims.

When all you know is Ohm's Law, everything looks like a resistor.

Incidentally, that flasher circuit can work with the open-base transistor installed in either direction.

The negative resistance region in the OP's emitter-up flasher circuit is interesting. It's like transistor action, but the e-b carriers are coming from zener action, not the normal carrier injection thing. Something like that. Nobody answered his question, namely whether this mode degrades the transistor.

The emitter-down version is avalanche transistor mode, at higher voltages. Tek used avalanche transistors in lots of sampling scopes, and they often still work, so it must be good for trillions of shots.

John

And... what about the emitter-up version lifespans?

All this from a simple request of how long would the transistor last being used this way..

Oh Well. I didn't know I was so good at opening up a can of worms.

But JK did bring something to my attention about spice I wasn't aware of. That just goes to show how much I really use spice.. ;)

Jamie

Zenering a b-e junction is known to degrade beta, so something's moving around inside there. But the flasher web sites claim the thing is reliable. So who knows?

John

I guess that means we can at least count you out.

To which JK are you referring?

Well, I don't know everything, and it would take a long time to find out experimentally.

John

Slip of the key board. JL

Jamie

Gotcha.

And, everybody opens can of worms with their most benign post. It's

*usenet!*

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