Fun with analogue multipliers

Aug 23, 2026 Last reply: 2 hours ago 12 Replies
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This circuit uses three analogue multipliers to make a 1kHz sinewave.



Two of them generate the control level and another one multiplies it by the oscillator feedback.



The fifth harmonic is at -133dB so it's not a -140dB candidate without getting the 5th harmonic down or using an additional filter to get rid of it.



There are probably reasons why this method doesn't buy anything over a polyphase rectifier but getting it to work at all was an interesting exercise.



I'll leave it to Bill to show us how to improve it with better analogue multipliers.


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32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C6 SYMATTR Value 10p SYMATTR SpiceLine V=25 Irms=0 Rser=0.3913 Lser=584p mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="885012008019 WCAP-CSGP 1206" type="NP0" SYMBOL voltage -3120 -224 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName V2 SYMATTR Value 9 SYMBOL res -1296 -224 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R33 SYMATTR Value 10K SYMBOL res -1456 -224 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R34 SYMATTR Value 10K SYMBOL npn -2864 336 R0 WINDOW 3 21 115 Left 2 SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMATTR InstName U1A SYMBOL npn -2608 336 M0 WINDOW 3 23 115 Left 2 SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMATTR InstName U1B SYMBOL npn -2512 336 R0 WINDOW 3 23 116 Left 2 SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMATTR InstName U1C SYMBOL npn -2256 336 M0 WINDOW 3 25 116 Left 2 SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMATTR InstName U1D SYMBOL npn -2800 544 R0 SYMATTR InstName U1E SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMBOL npn -2320 544 M0 SYMATTR InstName U1F SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMBOL npn 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WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R3 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL voltage -3120 -352 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName V1 SYMATTR Value 9 SYMBOL res -3072 688 M0 SYMATTR InstName R10 SYMATTR Value 3.9k SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1679 -1696 -368 R0 SYMATTR InstName U3 SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1679 -2048 -368 R0 SYMATTR InstName U4 SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1679 -1344 -368 R0 SYMATTR InstName U5 SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1679 -1376 -80 R0 SYMATTR InstName U6 SYMBOL res -1824 -384 R180 WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R32 SYMATTR Value 910 SYMBOL res -1472 -480 R180 WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R25 SYMATTR Value 15k SYMBOL res -1472 -384 R180 WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R39 SYMATTR Value 910 SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1679 -2608 -208 R0 SYMATTR InstName U1 SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1679 -1920 736 M0 SYMATTR InstName U8 SYMBOL res -2208 -224 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R40 SYMATTR 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Left 2 ;8 (+) TEXT -616 1040 Left 2 ;4 (-) TEXT -616 1120 Left 2 ;1 (+) TEXT -616 1264 Left 2 ;5 TEXT -624 1488 Left 2 ;14



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J

Expect a lot of noise.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

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J

Both. The circuit noise is more scientific.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

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B

Circuit noise can't be scientific. Science is a goal-directed human enterprise. Neither John Larkin or Edward Rawde know enough to appreciate what that goal might be be. That doesn't stop them from contributing to it - other people can harvest insights from the ideas they set out when they imagine that they are contributing..

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J

Johnson noise is a well-understood phenom. So is shot noise. So is transistor noise.

Spice will model circut noise quantitatively.

Science is a goal-directed human

Get a job.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

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P

It does a pretty good job of it, at least in linear situations, provided that the models cooperate.

I think the record for inaccuracy is arguably the Avago ATF3-series pHEMT models, which were pessimistic by 11 orders of magnitude.

A pity—I could have rectified it powered the whole circuit. ;)

Resistors, BJTs, and JFETs have decent physics-based noise models. Op amp models are all over the map, as you’d expect.

My “noiseless damping” circuit makes a shunt resistance with noise temperature T=11.3kΩ/Rshunt kelvins.

That’s pretty quiet even at 500 ohms, and really really quiet above 100k or so.

LTspice gets it right.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

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J

11 is bad. They must have used interns.

I'm always impressed that there are amps with sub-1dB noise figures. That feels impossible but it's real.

John Larkin Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center Lunatic Fringe Electronics

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E

"Bill Sloman" snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in message news:116h6k9$2oc8k$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me...

Here's -150 dB if you need it Bill. I'm not suggesting that this can be achieved or measured in practice but I am wondering what you'd have said if I'd posted this the same day you posted your circuit which used three times as many components and only did -60 dB in a simulation.

This circuit exceeds -140 dB so it's more than twice as good as yours.

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SYMBOL res 528 -560 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R43 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res 384 -240 R180 WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R44 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res -992 -624 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R45 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res -992 -704 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R46 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL npn -560 640 R0 WINDOW 3 21 115 Left 2 SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMATTR InstName U3A SYMBOL npn -304 640 M0 WINDOW 3 23 115 Left 2 SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMATTR InstName U3B SYMBOL npn -208 640 R0 WINDOW 3 23 116 Left 2 SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMATTR InstName U3C SYMBOL npn 48 640 M0 WINDOW 3 25 116 Left 2 SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMATTR InstName U3D SYMBOL npn -496 848 R0 SYMATTR InstName U3E SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMBOL npn -16 848 M0 SYMATTR InstName U3F SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMBOL npn -496 1072 R0 SYMATTR InstName U3G SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMBOL npn -144 1072 R0 SYMATTR InstName U3H SYMATTR Value AS3052 SYMBOL res -96 1216 R0 SYMATTR InstName R47 SYMATTR Value 500 SYMBOL res -448 1216 R0 SYMATTR InstName R48 SYMATTR Value 500 SYMBOL diode -672 1152 R0 SYMATTR InstName D3 SYMATTR Value 1N4148 SYMBOL res -672 1232 R0 SYMATTR InstName R49 SYMATTR Value 500 SYMBOL res -512 368 R0 SYMATTR InstName R50 SYMATTR Value 680 SYMBOL res -384 368 R0 SYMATTR InstName R51 SYMATTR Value 680 SYMBOL res -1184 624 R0 SYMATTR InstName R53 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res -1184 816 R0 SYMATTR InstName R54 SYMATTR Value 27k SYMBOL res -1088 624 R0 SYMATTR InstName R55 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res -1088 816 R0 SYMATTR InstName R56 SYMATTR Value 27k SYMBOL cap -832 592 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C8 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMBOL cap -832 672 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C9 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMBOL res 160 1136 M180 WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R57 SYMATTR 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-1856 416 R180 WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R76 SYMATTR Value 910 SYMBOL res -1504 320 R180 WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R77 SYMATTR Value 15k SYMBOL res -1504 416 R180 WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R78 SYMATTR Value 910 SYMBOL res -2192 624 R0 SYMATTR InstName R73 SYMATTR Value 2.7k SYMBOL res -1760 832 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R74 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res -1760 944 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R75 SYMATTR Value 250k SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1014 448 -480 R0 SYMATTR InstName U7A SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1014 448 608 R0 SYMATTR InstName U7C SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1014 576 144 M0 SYMATTR InstName U7B SYMBOL res -704 16 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R10 SYMATTR Value 3.9k SYMBOL res -704 1104 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R11 SYMATTR Value 3.9k SYMBOL res -3792 736 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R7 SYMATTR Value 3.9k SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1014 -2608 -272 R0 SYMATTR InstName U6A SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1014 -2704 608 M0 SYMATTR InstName U6B SYMBOL cap -1712 -512 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C4 SYMATTR Value 10n SYMBOL cap -1360 -512 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C5 SYMATTR Value 10n SYMBOL cap -1696 288 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C10 SYMATTR Value 10n SYMBOL cap -1344 288 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C11 SYMATTR Value 10n SYMBOL cap -2064 -608 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C6 SYMATTR Value 10p SYMBOL cap -2048 192 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C12 SYMATTR Value 10p TEXT -3280 -528 Left 2 !.tran 0 3 1m 500n startup TEXT -3280 -472 Left 2 !.options plotwinsize=0 numdgt=15 TEXT -3264 -704 Left 2 !.MODEL AS3052 NPN IS=10f BF=145.76 VAF=100 IKF=46.747m ISE=114.23f\n+NE=1.483 BR=100.1m VAR=100 IKR=10.01m ISC=10f RC=10 CJE=1.026p\n+MJE=333.33m CJC=991.79f MJC=333.33m TF=277.09p XTF=309.38\n+VTF=16.364 ITF=1.7597 TR=10n VCEO=20 ICRATING=50m MFG=RCA TEXT -3344 128 Left 2 ;AS3052 or MC1496 TEXT -3040 160 Left 2 ;(-) 12 TEXT -3040 192 Left 2 ;(+) 6 TEXT -2992 624 Left 2 ;2 TEXT -2992 656 Left 2 ;3 TEXT -3792 400 Left 2 ;10 (-) TEXT -3784 432 Left 2 ;8 (+) TEXT -3784 512 Left 2 ;4 (-) TEXT -3784 592 Left 2 ;1 (+) TEXT -3784 736 Left 2 ;5 TEXT -3792 960 Left 2 ;14 TEXT -2712 -520 Left 2 ;Low distortion 1KHz oscillator.\nER 24 August 2026 TEXT -2416 -344 Left 2 ;270 ohm variable TEXT -320 -584 Left 2 ;AS3052 or MC1496 TEXT 48 -560 Left 2 ;(-) 12 TEXT 48 -528 Left 2 ;(+) 6 TEXT 96 -96 Left 2 ;2 TEXT 96 -64 Left 2 ;3 TEXT -704 -320 Left 2 ;10 (-) TEXT -696 -288 Left 2 ;8 (+) TEXT -696 -208 Left 2 ;4 (-) TEXT -696 -128 Left 2 ;1 (+) TEXT -696 16 Left 2 ;5 TEXT -704 240 Left 2 ;14 TEXT -320 504 Left 2 ;AS3052 or MC1496 TEXT 48 528 Left 2 ;(-) 12 TEXT 48 560 Left 2 ;(+) 6 TEXT 96 992 Left 2 ;2 TEXT 96 1024 Left 2 ;3 TEXT -704 768 Left 2 ;10 (-) TEXT -696 800 Left 2 ;8 (+) TEXT -696 880 Left 2 ;4 (-) TEXT -696 960 Left 2 ;1 (+) TEXT -696 1104 Left 2 ;5 TEXT -704 1328 Left 2 ;14

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J

Every amplifier ever made could have a sub 1dB noise figure.

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J

What's the amplitude limiting mechanism?

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E

Remove the sinsq+cossq net name at R3 (lower left) and ground that net.

It will now reach supply rail limiting at about 1.2 seconds.

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