"Exploding" phones

On the hottest day of the year here, I measured the surface temperature of the van seats (with the windows open), it was 75 C.

I only ever switch mine on to make a call and that's it. I don't want the damn thing on all the time for several reasons; mostly because it's too distracting, but aside from that, it's mind-poison and seems to 'zombify' heavier users. Recent research kinda confirms this, so I feel suitably vindicated and superior to everyone else who didn't catch on to the dangers earlier.

research as in you read it in a flat-earth facebook group?

do you also not keep any beer in your fridge because some people become alcoholics?

Well, they would know.

Yes. A neighbor had a can of aerosol explode in his vehicle.

Homeless people end up admitted to the hospital with severe burns from sleeping/walking on the sidewalks. Dogs/pets wear "booties". etc.

What is surprising is how quickly confined spaces heat up! E.g., a few minutes in the store brings you back to a vehicle that has hazardous internal temperatures.

When one ventures out, during daylight hours, on returning to your vehicle you open windows BEFORE turning on the ACbrr and let the ACbrrr exhaust the hot air from the vehicle BEFORE closing the windows and turning on the recirculation feature. This allows the 110F outdoor air to replace the

"But, it's a dry heat..." TmReg

This is unfortunate as most phones are only designed (formally) to work up to ~100F so keeping it at a warm 98F in your pocket is already "pushing it"! At the low end, "freezing".

And, it means you can't leave an extra phone in your car for those times when you might need it (non-operating, I think buys you another 15 degrees on the high end and 30 on the low end)

When we were in the market for SWMBO's vehicle, we were sitting in one of the vehicles we were about to take on a test drive. In short order, several errors were signaled on the dash:

- collision avoidance system failure

- lane tracking system failure

- adaptive cruise control failure etc.

Apparently did not like sitting in the hot sun (I think they rely on airflow over the windshield to assist with cooling as the ACbrrr was already blasting away.)

The salesman was unfazed by our observations.

"You *do* know this is A COMMON ENVIRONMENT, here???"

Many years ago I kept a small LCD thermometer in the car. One very hot day I came back to the car to find the display blank. When it had cooled down enough to reappear I checked the maximum temperature recorded inside the car. It was 62°C!

And people still "forget" their kids in their car seats as they dash into the store...

Or their dogs. :-(

Depends a bit on the value of the phone. There are repair shops on most UK highstreets that will do simple repairs like battery swaps for a reasonable fee. Not sure how good they are at it never tried it myself.

I have had two phones eventually swell up the battery after about a decade of continuous use.

The guy put $30K into his car in the past month. And, he's trying to pinch a few pennies (relatively speaking) on a phone? <rolls eyes>

C'mon, if you were destitute, I'd try to save you a few bucks. But, my time has value (to me). If you're willing to throw those kinds of dollars at ANYTHING, then buying a new phone MADE OF SOLID GOLD shouldn't be disconcerting!

People have really screwwy priorities.

That puts a different complexion on it entirely. I volunteer to mend things to stop them ending up in landfill. Sometimes we get unreasonable requests. A guy brought in a laptop that had clearly been thronw into a skip from a great height. This only became apparent when I managed to get it to try and boot and the display lit up. Crazy paving effect with a massive amount of spiders web damage across the screen.

Indeed. In the UK there are several high street chains selling preowned hitech gear (and with an online presence). There are bargains to be had if you have sufficient knowledge and they honour the advertised price even if it is clearly wrong on a price performance metric.

Great place to buy slightly elderly high capacity ram from...

Naah, Flat-Earthers don't believe in the Internet either!

Ditto. The place I referenced currently has ~200 (apparently identical make/model) laptops from a recent donation. I suspect they will be refurbished and then given to "less fortunate" kids.

With the mantra: "Reuse, Refurbish, Repurpose, Recycle", you can see how my taking home a box that will likely never see reuse (do to its size or difficulty disassembling -- to recycle) is seen as A Good Thing. Ditto the scores of disk drives, etc.

The more distressing is the old couple who proudly bring in their W95 computer (beige box, no less!) and CRT monitor in the hope that we will find some "deserving young kid" who can benefit from their donation.

Or, that 65" REAR PROJECTION TV in the rubbed cherry cabinet that no one will want to haul off (to the tip!).

Or the electric wheelchair that we simply can't take time to "deliver" and definitely won't be able to "service" at their home months/years from now. It's not like they can put it in the back of their car to bring it in for service! You can't even heft it onto the back of a TRUCK at ~600 pounds...

"Our" goal is to find homes for things. If someone wants to give us a few bucks to keep the lights on, great. But, what we want is to do the least amount of "recycling" possible -- as that is an admission of defeat.

I brought home 33 4T SAS drives -- each with 4 or 5 PoH -- a few weeks back (it's getting harder to find uses for all that storage). Last week, five AiO i7 boxes, initially running Windows (though that didn't last long!). Before that, a 25U rack (which, unfortunately, is too deep for my needs but will suffice until replacing it becomes a priority) and a 5KVA sine-wave UPS.

It's just too hard to find homes for things as most want the latest and greatest <whatever>, even if what you have to GIVE them looks pristine.

And, there are those (with their "hands out") that won't "settle" for something unless it is top shelf ("Well, I guess you can visit any of the commercial outlets and BUY something...")

I pillage the discarded servers (the volunteers we have tend to be developmentally disabled and servers pose a big challenge to them due to size and the way they fit together) for ECC DRAM. Again, of little value in the consumer market.

So, it's easy to build a machine with 256G or 512G or RAM. And, spend no money doing it ("Thank you for finding a use for this stuff! Are you sure we can't interest you in another 85 inch TV? Or, maybe an autoclave? We've got this, fairly new, motorized stair lift over here...")

(sigh) The amount of stuff we throw away (as a society) should make most folks hang their heads in shame ("But, it was last year's model...")

These are sorely out of date:

This is the disk sanitizer that I designed for them:

It is an incredibly BORING task -- dull and repetitive.

Sadly, the guy now tasked with overseeing recycling of donated kit is of the mistaken belief that simply installing Windows will wipe the previous contents of the disk, clean. (sigh) Ignorance abounds!

And this:

I think any recycling operation needs to have an efficient pipeline of selling things on eg ebay. That's where people are buying used stuff - if you can turn them over to a buyer who is willing to cover your costs then that's both a new home found and enough to make it worthwhile from your end.

See r/datahoarders on Reddit and the ServeTheHome forum. People building giant homelabs may well be interested, and are putting them in an old server with SAS ports.

Part of running such an operation is about knowing your markets.

Again, retrocomputing is a market. I don't think it's a large market, but it seems to be bigger in the US than UK. Whether it'll cover your costs is another question, but part of that is having an efficient operation to minimise those costs.

I agree that's junk :)

(unless you can find some woodworker who wants the wood)

The thing with secondhand disability stuff is it typically requires someone else (eg a relative of the disabled) to take care of the servicing. You can buy the items cheap used, but it needs somebody else eg willing to replace the batteries when they die. If you don't have someone like that then you need to pay for that service, typically as part of a package with buying the new item and a service plan - and that's where the cost is.

But if it's old tech (eg lead acid rather than lithium) then it's harder to move on because the new stuff is so much better.

Perhaps 'recyclers' need some kind of waste disposal licence anyway?

My perspective is that you need to find someone who will value the item. If the cost to them is $0 they may not value it as much as someone who pays $1 or $10 for it. So re-homing is not about money, but money encourages valuing. And if there are costs to you then you can use the money to defray those costs.

If the money is going to be a barrier to someone who you know will value it, then by all means reduce or waive the cost.

For that sort of thing, I think a lot of it comes down to friction. If you had a store where somebody can 'buy now' the item and have it delivered to their door, even at some cost, that may be more attractive than having to take time to visit your premises, see your ever evolving stock etc.

To make that work you have to be fairly efficient in terms of listing and despatch. Which is what the big recyclers are good at, and they do manage to get decent money for their products.

That sounds like you need to be a business. Perhaps with a sideline in giving things away free to needy causes, but charging (small) money to those who can pay. Then those with their 'hands out' can decide what they want to pay.

B2B turnover is a bit harder... it's more difficult sell to convince a business to buy used, unless it's backed up by a service agreement and properly refurbished. And stuff like old servers eat more in power than you save in purchase price. So they run for 3-5 years and are scrap afterwards. Maybe some small parts can be picked off and sold, but mostly not.

Theo

I've been with this one group (there are many, here) for probably 15 (maybe 20?) years. There has always been "the idea" of selling on eBay. But, no one (volunteer) has stuck around long enough to make it worthwhile. (*I* certainly am not interested in spending hours describing items, fielding questions, packing, shipping and dealing with complaints -- that sounds like "having customers"! :< )

We've operated a local store with some effort. When you get items for $0 and spend $0 on labor, you can make money.

And, when you have "kids" who treat their efforts as "occupational therapy" (usually supervised but one supervisor can handle many kids), then that effort dismantling items also has zero cost. Recycling is just way too labor intensive.

And having someone who wants to deal with "customers".

Weve had our share of "locals" looking for specific items. At one point, we were "taking requests": "Can you watch out for an XYZ for me and give me a call..."

And, you'd eventually stumble across one, put it aside, give them a call... and they would never show up. So, we stopped "taking requests" -- if we have something and you want it, make an offer. We know what we can get for it by recycling it so beat that price...

The problem is folks treat you as a trash can. They can't dispose of <whatever> using normal outlets so think YOU will take it off their hands -- and be GRATEFUL for it!

When we stopped taking CRTs, people were openly hostile. "The city will recycle it for you" "Yeah, but they want me to PAY them to take it!" "Oh, and you think it won't cost US anything to dispose of it?"

Exactly. I've rescued two high end chairs as they were impossible to find homes for without "support". One I converted into an electric wheelbarrow to haul stone around the yard -- using a long extension cord and a pair of 70A power supplies... so I don't have to maintain batteries in something that I use rarely. The other I have been automating as part of my home automation project (e.g., climb out of it and tell it to go park itself until you need it later)

Batteries are about $400 if you can install them yourself. Closer to $1,100 if you have someone install them for you (because they have to come to your house, do the labor, etc.)

And, when the batteries die, accessing them becomes problematic (e.g., my chairs have a "lift" function that you use to raise the seating assembly up off of the battery compartment. When the batteries fail, you have to partially disassemble the chair and "hand crank" the seating assembly up -- using a special tool that YOU likely have misplaced)

Different chargers and batteries for lithium. Few people will make that extra investment, especially if "insurance" has a say (below)

Here (US), most chairs are paid for by insurance (or the gummit). They are treated as Durable Medical Equipment (DME) and, as such, are expected to last ~5 years.

But, that means you can often get a *new* one in 5 years!

List prices are ridiculous. E.g., each of my chairs, as "equipped" (i.e., taking into account the stuff I pilfered from other chairs) "lists" for north of $40K. I can't believe people (insurers) PAY that much for them.

OTOH, there is a lot of overhead ("profit") in a sale as you have to be fitted for the chair, a fair bit of time evaluating them ("loaners") and the amount of "floor space" that has to be set aside to have units available to see/test.

Folks who are "stuck" in chairs also tend to "have bathroom accidents" so the chairs can get pretty vile.

I selected mine based on their mileage as an indication of age.

It depends on where you sit in the processing chain. We don't do final disposition of the items, leaving that to others who buy the materials from us. We just have to make sure we don't break any laws in how *we* dispose of things. E.g., anything that goes in the "trash" has to be suitable for disposal via that avenue; can't throw electronics in the trash (but *can* discard paper products, plastic, cherry wood, etc.)

Some items pose special risks -- e.g., when I was there last week, I stumbled on a 6 cu ft carton of new hypodermic syringes ("insulin syringes"). We don't want people to know such things are on the premises.

One time, I found a bottle of morphine sulfate. Another time, found a "volunteer" shooting up in one of the bathrooms.

It's an interesting experience! <frown>

We've not been able to sort out how people think about "parting with money" for items.

If you GIVE them away, people often don't follow through (e.g., the whole "requests" issue). I suggested requiring a down payment so folks would have to decide *if* it was worth something to them and make an investment in returning for it.

But, I don't set policy.

Other people see "free" and abuse it. Give them a free computer and they will bring it back a month later complaining that it is "broken". No, it's just chock full of malware! And, they expect a replacement!

I've advocated just restoring it to its original condition (anything they wanted to keep is lost). But, again, I don't set policy. So, people will spend days trying to recover everything "personal", then rebuilding the machine as originally distributed, then restoring the "personal" items. Meanwhile, the "ingrate" is pissed because he doesn't have a computer ("Can't I get a loaner??")

What we have done is to set a nominal fee ($20?) for a "free machine" ("CPU", monitor, keyboard, mouse, OS, LibreOffice, free AV, etc.) that can be waived for 5 hours of donated time.

Usually, we get very little *work* out of a client in such a short time period. But, it "invests" them in the device so (we hope) gives it value.

Consider the "take requests" experience. We've found that people are more likely to part with cash if they see an item they want, *now*. If they have to think about it, they tend to decide they don't need it or don't make it a priority to return for the item.

Again, our goal isn't financial but, rather, to keep the stuff out of the landfill.

Most businesses have a disposal problem. Many *pay* people to take their "surplus". We allow them to take a tax deduction ("charity") and solve Their problem knowing that SOME value will come from their discards.

Over the years, I'd acquired a fair bit of test equipment as discards. Some out of calibration (6.5 digit DVM, digitally programmable load, DSOs, logic analyzers ARBs, etc.).

But, everything takes up space and I'm on a cleaning binge...

Businessman == customers. Not something *I* am interested in doing. And, with no real paid staff, you are relying on a volunteer(s) to commit to being on-hand for those who show up.

Then, you have the micromanaging issue where *they* have to get prices approved by someone else (lest customers learn who they can bamboozle, etc.)

In the past, people paid to sell (commission) would end up setting their prices too high as that affected what they *made*. So, there weren't as many "deals". Which leads to fewer sales. Which leads to folks "quitting".

When LCD monitors first became available, I would take the defective units (typically bad inverters) home, a dozen at a time, and repair them. When I would bring them into the store, I would be intercepted at the door by people taking them out of my hands to purchase.

The guy responsible for the store saw that as a sign that prices should be increased. (I later learned he got a "cut" of everything sold in the store -- keep in mind that I'm putting in my labor and replacement parts, gratis!).

Of course, *retail* prices fell -- and demand dropped off. Precipitously. Who's going to pay $40 for a monitor if they can buy a NEW one (with a guarantee) for not much more than that? $10 or $15 is a deal but $40 requires consideration...

Exactly. They've built the cost of this into their business plan.

OTOH, we've seen demand for legacy servers where businesses are operating with huge technical debt and are willing to acquire anything that they think they can make operational, just to cling to a 10-20 year old IT infrastructure.

I think drive trays could be a seller. They are easy to salvage (no special skill involved save that of removing the disk). And, hard to "break" -- it's just a flimsy piece of steel or plastic.

Cables are inexpensive enough that folks don't bother with them, even if ours are new-in-packaging. I, OTOH, would be damned if I had to buy a patch cord! Or DP/VGA/DVI/HDMI cable. Not when there are hundreds of pounds of them sitting, waiting to have their copper reclaimed!

Mice, keyboards... too often show wear. And, they are cheap enough "new" that folks don't bother.

If you harken back to their mission statement, you realize that their goal is really just to keep stuff out of landfills, not "make money". In the past, we've shipped dental offices (the entire office!) to clinics in mexico (to divert it from landfill). Ditto medical equipment (very hard to reuse medical kit in the US due to liability issues).

For me, its a chance to play with all sorts of kit for $0. I give a little time designing/building things like the disk sanitizer (which was a great learning experience). Or, operate the forklift as I'm the only one "certified" to do so.

But, if I think about the task at hand, its one that is almost impossible to solve; there is *always* more kit being discarded. With an army of volunteers, we could never keep up with the influx. It's just a flaw in our society/personalities.