Extending op-amp phase accuracy using active feedback

Mar 22, 2012 30 Replies

se error at lower frequencies by adding an equal but opposite phase shift i= n the amplifier feedback loop." That's completely wrong and not at all the = basis for the phase correction. Anyone can see the feedback loop has phase = lag and not lead. Just goes to show that the engineer can be completely clu= eless and still succeed in getting a working product.

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sees a feedback phase shift that lags Vin, so it must introduce a phase lea= d to zero the error. So it is the error amp in the main amp that introduces= the lead and not the feedback path. So the idea is introduce a phase lag i= n the feedback to force the main amp to produce the compensating phase lead= .

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single feedback loop function, the output is easily shown to be the mathema= tical inverse of the feedback function. Using the relation between reciproc= als of transforms of inverse time functions, you know a simple phase delay = at fixed frequency is exp(-j theta) with corresponding reciprocal/inverse e= xp( + j theta), then superimpose that on the reality of an imperfect OA and= you have your result.- Hide quoted text -

Thanks Fred, That works too. I'm perhaps more like Joel. I'd like an intuitive understanding of what's going on and only drill down into the math when needed.

George H.

feedback phase shift that lags Vin, so it must introduce a phase lead to zero the error. So it is the error amp in the main amp that introduces the lead and not the feedback path. So the idea is introduce a phase lag in the feedback to force the main amp to produce the compensating phase lead.

Quite often, the _theory_ isn't the actual answer ;-) ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Not as long as Bill Sloman is a member...

You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

You'll get a kick out of this:

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You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

They did that already. Darn upstairs neighbours.... ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Sure did! At ~1min of crap delay, I exited the page. ...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at

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| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

It's a 1959 military book on Germanium transistor circuits.It took me about another five seconds, after a 57 second wait to download it.

The name of the manual is TM11-690, and it's availible on a lot of sites.

You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Got it. ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Got around to testing it, OpAmps are 10MHz GBW, Phase-Margin=45°...

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Is it really worth the effort? ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Compound amps can be useful for frequency-domain applications, but their transient response is nearly always the pits. You wind up with some pole-zero pair someplace in the mid-frequencies that almost-but-not-quite cancel, and that produces settling artifacts at long times. If 1% settling is all you care about, you can do it, but

0.1% is hard and 0.01% is next to impossible IME.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net

Yep. Looked to me like the phase "improvement" is nothing to write home about, and you pay dearly with peaking. ...Jim Thompson

| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

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