Dot allowed as characters allowed in netlist?

Mar 11, 2018 175 Replies

Same here. Curiously(?), I always speak it as "point four seven", but write it "zero point four seven". The zero is implied in written form, and omitted in spoken form.

All about minimizing ambiguity. The spoken word should be concise, so that the listener is not burdened and fatigued by irrelevance; while the written word should be visually unambiguous, and can take some liberties with concision(?).

As most readers verbalize written text, one cannot take too many liberties on that aspect, or the reader will be as lost as the listener.

It often looks better too, though sometimes it doesn't. There's always a solution that is both appealing and sensible. Lazy drafters tend not to look for them (or think about appeal or readability at all, for that matter).

Tim

Seven Transistor Labs, LLC Electrical Engineering Consultation and Contract Design Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/

I don't understand all this dot/decimal paranoia. Make them clean and visible. Deliberate offsetting of natural 4-way connections makes ugly schematics, as does the 4K7 notation.

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics

"4m5" ?

This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software

Depends on your POV. I'm from the old school of mmf and cps. Switching to Hz was easy, but I could never get my mind around nF. Eventually I figured out

1nF was 1,000mmf, but I get completely lost at 10 nf.

So I had to check. Sure enough, 470nF = 0.47mfd / uF

formatting link

So you are right, but I'll stick with 0.47uF

Otherwise, I'll probably make huge mistakes:)

mmF can be mega confusing - I worked with one old-timer who used it for

*milli-micro* (aka nano) but books of that era also used *micro-micro* (aka pico). Usually the context help avert diaster.

piglet

You are right. The Radiotron Designers Handbook, 1954 Edition, states

"Note: The abbreviations mF or mmF should not be used under any circumstances to indicate microfarads or micro-microfarads, because mF is the symbol for milli-farads (1 x 10-3 farad). Some reasonable latitude is allowable with most symbols, but here there is danger of serious error and misunderstanding."

p176,

formatting link

I guess there are few threads here that actually talk about capacitor values. But in LTspice, I often use 1e-12, 1e-9, 1e-6, 1e-3, etc, when there can be confusion about the value using standard nomenclature.

For completeness, here are some other books from the era, as well as two bonus links:

Electrons And Holes In Semiconductors by William Shockley 1950

formatting link

Radiation Lab Series

formatting link

Reference Data For Engineers

formatting link

Terman, 1943

formatting link

Jim Williams Lab Notes

formatting link

Bob Pease Lab Notes

formatting link

Always pico IME. Nanofarads were written as 0.001 MF.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net https://hobbs-eo.com

At least many of the legacy layout systems which are still in wide use are case-insensitive and lower/upper case distinction would become lost. Customary is all caps which is probably why Eagle also defaults to that.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I used 1TSP5 of Irish moss during my brewing. A Session Ale and a Pale Ale.

Just got myself stainless buckets for fermentation, woohoo!

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/

4.5 meters would require "minor re-tooling".

If I have to. Then I'd rather use micrometers though. I just wanted to know if dots are legit in netlists for older and newer layout software.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/

That's why I wrote "footprint". Those are not normally required for a simulator.

Dots are very normal in SPICE netlists. I am just not sure about PCB netlists.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/

That's going to take one big bite out of any board. I'd hope no one would seriously chuck that bit in the CNC drill.

4500u?

Well, some kids are easily amused.

Have you tried Guinness Cake? It even looks like a draft Guinness.

formatting link

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Those are 1p 1n 1u 1m respectively. Scientific notation.

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Yes, I know. The 1u notation can be troublesome if LTspice is configured to convert it to the symbol. If you try to send it via SED, the client may convert it to an unknown symbol. This wrecks the file so it cannot be read until the symbol is converted back. Using 1e-6 solves the problem.

There are other cases in LTspice where it makes more sense to use exponential notation to avoid confusion rather than scientific notation.

err.. nonsenses on its nonsense :-)

Spice schematics, using a dotted grid, are far, far easier and more reliable to read as 4k7 than 4.7k, that's why I have it in SS. Go and actually try it...

-- Kevin Aylward

formatting link
- SuperSpice
formatting link

Too young to recall thermal fax machines? Lines that crossed got rather fat at the intersection, and the images faded over time.

Got to be thankful for the little thing. They are $100 versions, marginal production quality in the welds and other things but they work and sure look much more expensive than they were. The plastic ones can't hack it because wort (the "soup" after brewing and before fermenting) is aggressive in its pH value and etches into the plastic over time.

Never had any but it looks delicious.

Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Are these dots hard to tell from the grid?

formatting link

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics

I started with hand-drawn schematics on vellum, and blueprint machines. And I still use both. And I never lose or mistake decimal points or tie points. Maybe that's because I had two semisters of engineering drawing in college.

I don't think that a D-size schematic could be FAXd, then or now.

A lot of current "wisdom" is left over from olden days, and especially bad, amateur habits of olden days. We have computers now. Parts lists are generated automatically from our schematics, and computers don't mistake decimal points for coffee stains. Software gets the net lists right even when two wires cross.

Scientific notation and SI units are correct. The 4K7 thing is amateur audio nonsense.

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics

Join the Discussion

Have something to add? Share your thoughts — no account required.

Didn't find your answer?

Ask the community — no account required