development process

It takes you a lot of words to get to the crux of your argument. If I were to redesign you I would make it so you used less words to get to the point. There it is! Finally..

I was glad to hear your perspective, though, it differs from a number of the other tech people I've talked with who said startups should consider just ignoring getting small runs of new products certified entirely, given that the average FCC fine costs about as much as the certs do...and that was back when we had an FCC who vaguely gave a s*it.My bad for making a best-faith effort to comply with the law, I guess.

No I've never been to China.

As far as I can tell from your posts that's precisely what someone might consider _you_ at this time as well, Mr. Pot/Kettle! That you feel a need to keep a server farm in your residence doesn't change this. Rather like domestic TV manufacturing your factory QA days are long gone.

If the shoe fits.

Sounds like a great argument for "I don't have the funds to do this so I will rationalize NOT doing it". One can similarly say "I don't have the SKILLS to do this..." or "I don't WANT to do this..."

As for "best faith"? Is that sort of like "slowing down for a stop sign" instead of coming to a full and complete halt?

It costs money, effort, skill and discipline to bring a product to market. Thinking you can skimp on either is just happy talk.

"I can barely afford a car so why should I have to pay for auto insurance?"

Your ignorance is showing. Do you really think there are NO factories in the US? And, have NEVER been in all the years you've been able to have visited one?

/Ad hominem/ attacks. So, I guess you've conceded the argument. I'm sure you're product(s) will be a raging success -- enough for you possibly to hire a BOOKKEEPER in the next few years!

I keep "multiple machines" because:

- they are dirt cheap ($10 -- that's *ten*)

- I can dedicate a machine to a specific purpose

- I can verify my software works on different platforms

- I can run tools that are hosted by those different platforms

As to tinkering, I have several products that I've designed that have been marketed over the past 50 years. And, a budget of 500K for my current project (which I never intend to *sell* but, rather, give away to coerce development in different areas)

Gee, maybe I shouldn't bother certifying any of the designs (22) as I could save a good chunk of change. Besides, those who are capitalizing on my generosity will have to have THEIR implementations certified.

Did I claim they were "recent"? WHEN were yours? When have you worked in a factory? Or, in a disciplined environment where HOW you did your job was as important as the job itself?

There are few constraints on weaving baskets...

You tell me they retest after every firmware revision and then you walk it back and shift the goalpost and are like: "well maybe they retest, or maybe they just know their product real good."

Since you don't know perhaps you could point me in the direction of somebody who actually knows the f****ng answer.

Because there are costs to changing firmware and recertification (which can include far more costly efforts than something as simple as FCC compliance), they think REALLY REALLY hard before they make a casual change (like the ones you seem to enjoy making).

Walk into a casino and tell them you want to replace the software in even ONE of their slot machines...

Tell the guy on the tableting floor in the pharmaceutical FACTORY that you want to change the control algorithm for the tablet press that will be cranking out a few million Viagra tablets, today...

Tell the doctor operating the DaVinci robot...

Tell the guy installing the avionics package in the jumbo jet...

You know, people who actually CARE about the quality and reliability of their products because there are REAL stakes involved! (not just the color of an LED indicator)

But, hey, it's YOUR name that's on the package, right? So, if you have that little concern over YOUR business reputation...

I'm not really in favor of the "everyone else thinks really hard but Bitrex"-theory. If I didn't think about things we wouldn't be having the discussion.

If it were business-as-usual to build every product to a medical grade or mil spec standard why would we need those standards in the first place?

Anyway, I'm definitely more interested in knowing what a sampling of industries and US-based start-ups actually do, than DonY's personal opinions on what constitutes conscientious engineering/business practices. It's clear you have them, lol. But answers to directly pertinent questions, apparently not so much. That you like to go off on tangents and pull rank on people doesn't cause me to forget that the substantive material is not actually being addressed.

Basically, this is u:

That doesn't prevent them from being named in a lawsuit. And, if "expenses" are your concern, you'll note they all pay a hefty bit (in perpetuity) for insurance!

Life has been VERY good to me! :> It seems fair to "give back" (10 hrs per week).

Imagine a new doctor, just starting out, deciding he didn't need malpractice insurance, an office staff, someone to "code" insurance claims, a lawyer, accountant, etc. BECAUSE HE COULDN'T AFFORD THEM.

Yeah, we should have a fast track for such folks to encourage them to get into medicine! (with a big sticker they could put on their office door: "Caution: Student driver")

What business did you do so well for yourself in, the straw man business?

Did FCC Part 15 B even exist in your heyday?

You work on some Mafia-ass rigged gaming machines designed to rip off the poor and ignorant at gas stations. Don't ever lecture me about a moral compass, yours is far gone.

And the local Elks Club or Knights of Columbus -- we all know those folks are the dregs of society to even entertain "gambling" (with their families' monies) or drinking "on club time"! Or, the poker games in the various "political clubs". Lets outlaw playing cards. And, bocce should be a felony! Billiard tables. On-line gambling. Prediction markets.

You really don't understand the grey market, do you? Gas stations tend to sell LOTTERY TICKETS. That amoral government that relies on exploiting the hopes of its citizenry.

I also work on pharmaceutical products so guys can "get it up", people can survive cancer, anitbiotics can cure infections, labs can track patient blood samples, fishermen can improve their harvests, etc.

And you work on music kit for "drugged out" musicians? Dopers? Really? I guess you're the morality police in your side job? (I guess SOMETHING has got to pay the bills!)

Face it, you are underfunded. 90% of startups fail. Did you research what your costs would LIKELY be before you set off on your own? Did you TALK to people who had attempted similar acts? Did they tell you that it takes far more money than you anticipate??

I budgeted 500K for a single prototype with DM+DL at about 40K. More than 200K of that is for certifications so houses don't burn down or neighbors lose their TV/cell reception.

And, I've got another 500K waiting behind that for any contingencies that I failed to anticipate.

And I'm not planning on selling any devices! (arguably, I could claim I'm operating a "prototype" but that wouldn't be very neighborly or reassuring to my insurer!)

Ideas are cheap. Bringing them to market is the difference between a practical idea and just a wet dream.

Designing custom devices (hardware, software, documentation) for VC-backed developers. Lots of pressure to succeed when the VC only typically sees a

The connection between grey-area/unregulated gambling and organized crime is well established.

Don Y snipped-for-privacy@foo.invalid wrote: |--------------------------------------------------------------| |"[. . .] Have you ever considered how to share a computer with| |unknown users and still safeguard its continued operation?]" | |--------------------------------------------------------------|

No. (S.

Everybody, let all of us be nice! Try not to overreact! Try not to be convinced by wrong conclusions! (S.

As is the connection between musicians and drug abuse?

You cannot deploy a gaming device in a public place. You'll note all of the examples I gave are private clubs. What happens *in* them is solely under the control of the club itself.

In jurisdictions where gaming is legal, it is regulated and any public machine has to display a license. Just like you can't open a deli and use your bathroom scale to weigh the lunchmeats you sell (also avoiding the annual certification of the scale).

The regulations are there to protect the customers (gamblers) from unfair machines or machines that are predatory in nature (gaming jurisdictions determine the amount of the wager that available to the operator "on average" -- typically 1 or 2%; part of the design of such devices is ensuring that, over time, the machine pays out only a prescribed amount of its wagered monies)

Your Elks Lodge can install a *pachinko* game (a commodity product used and owned by many private individuals) and "payout" based on the number of balls you "redeem". Or, a slot machine that prints out a "ticket" when you are finished using it (that someone conveniently turns into cash). Or, a card table and a deck of cards with poker chips.

Remember, you can now LEGALLY "predict" whether or not someone will show up at the State of the Union speech, nowadays... And, there's no shortage of people willing to throw "hard earned money" after "hopes and dreams".

There's plenty of work given the number of developers who have the "9-to-5" mentality. The principals/VCs usually have no "hands on" technical experience so have to rely on "experts" to make their ideas a reality -- within their budgets and time frames.

By giving a fixed cost and a defined timeframe, the VC sees me as assuming some of his risk -- the parts that he likely has little direct experience with -- and, what it's going to ACTUALLY cost. One less uncertainty to address.

Your 9-to-5 employer "takes all the risk" while you cash the check so how is it any different? Chances are, your employer will likely still be in business come payday. The VC project could collapse in a heartbeat if some aspect fails to pass the muster.

In addition to the typical "self-employed" issues:

- The VC or principal can mismanage the monies and decide you're the easiest party to screw out of payment

- Personality clashes between the principals and VC can throw things into turmoil

- The project can flop because of other technical issues that you have no control over (the basic science may be wrong!)

- The market could be misjudged (price and quantity)

- Additional constraints can be imposed late in the project (coding standards, certifications, etc.) that leave you debating whether or not to take on the extra work or just walk away from the project (because it wasn't covered in the contract, we'll let the courts decide that!)

- you can misjudge the effort/time/skill required to meet your commitment.

- you can choose tools that may fail to live up to expectations of them (I am almost always using new jobs to acquire new tools and new skills -- how much confidence do I have in my ability to pick up those skills in the time allotted?)

Of course, many of these can plague an employee. But, the "employer" usually has more inertia than a "special project" that may have just a handful of folks working on it with no alternate workloads to take up if this one fails. (I'm often the "engineering department" with other folks tackling packaging, marketing, etc.)

And, of course, if you want to *guide* your career, you have to be a lot more analytical in evaluating potential jobs before getting tied up in them (cuz you can't just "quit" if the job isn't giving you what you wanted, like an employee!). You're not just tying up "a few months" of your career so the other things you can eventually take on are time limited.

Should I take up gardening, instead? Or, buy a second home? Boat? Overpriced automobile? More "things" that will have to be disposed of when I die, doing nothing for society (besides adding to consumption) Trip around the world?

I *try* to be socially responsible esp as I now can much better afford to do so. Hence the time spent volunteering and my focus on technological problems that actually benefit people (instead of just making more money for someone else)

I've found a set of interesting problems to keep me engaged. And, publiching those solutions can coerce others to pursue ideas that *I* think deserve attention -- e.g., designing for accessibility, privacy, security, reliability, etc. Issues that should have value, even after I'm gone.

By contrast, most *products* have very short lifespans.

How do you install computers in "public places" and ensure the "next customer" that the PREVIOUS customer didn't install a keylogger or something else that would compromise the followon user's use of that machine?

If you can't assure those users, then why would they ever make use of your "service"?