Current mirror version of the lowish distortion 1kHz sine wave osillator

That's too repulsive to sumulate.

A super-low distortion oscillator would be interesting, but a few fundamental issues would need to be addressed first.

I'd expect that a 1 PPM THD, variable fequency sine generator shouldn't be too difficult, but how would you measure it?

It runs at about 25ms (simulation time) per second real time.

In that case I don't get why I'm seeing 25us/s and it takes three minutes to report 0.1% done. Core i7 3.6 GHz Windows 10

Not a widely shared opinion.

Jim Williams published one years ago - it's covered in one of his Linear Technology application notes.

It isn't. One art per million puts the harmonic content about 120dB below the fundamental, and a few people claim to have done better.

Spectrum analysers and Fourier transform analysis can pull out that level of harmonic content - as you really ought to know.

I copied and pasted your file, and - after I'd sorted out the line wraps

- turning off "Line Wrap" in Notepad made that a lot easier, which was very useful advice - it run painlessly at about 25msec/sec.

It is running on LTSpice 17.0 on Windows 7, and I do have to download

Ok I'm going to try a fresh installation of 24.1.0 on a machine which has never had LTSpice on it before.

What you get if you are running Windows 7 is version 17.0.36.0, which may explain the difference. The sim runs just as fast on the newly uploaded software. It's unlikely that John May has stuck to Window 7. and he has reported here that he is getting the same kind of speed.

Don posted much the same observation earlier.

"Bill Sloman" snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in message news:vmpj6v$i521$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me...

I put LTSpice XVII(X64) (17.0.34.0) in the administrator account of an older core i5 2.8GHz (not SSD) running Windows 11 home 23H2. I'll be upgrading it to Windows 10 pro when I get a chance. I didn't install any suggested LTSpice updates. U1 was out of position but this time I had to move it up and connect the -ve power rail. Simulation speed varies between about 6ms/s and 15 ms/s. Vout shows a single transient at startup which peaks at about 600mv pk and settles to a constant level of around 100mV pk in a few hundred ms. FFT of a sample of about 100ms near 10s with Blackman Harris window shows 1kHz a little below -20dB,

Now move exactly the same circuit to LTSpice 24.1.0 on a core i7 SSD Windows 10 pro 22H2. LTSpice component updates available today 22 Jan 2025 were also installed. U1 now has to be moved down and the +ve rail has to be connected. Note that after saving the file in 24.1.0 the version at the top of the file becomes 4.1 Take a sample of about 10us of Vout between 300-350us and do FFT with Blackman-Harris window. This shows a peak of -43dB at 24MHz and the next highest peak -93dB at 400MHz. Zoom to fit and watch progress. Reported speed is about 25us/s. Leave simulation running and do some other work. Come back after an hour and find it has peaked at 600mV pk after 86ms simulation time and is now falling. Take a sample of a few cycles at 86ms and run FFT with Blackman-Harris window.

All signal amplitude levels given are pk. pk-pk would be twice.

To avoid any doubt of what I'm simulating, it's below.

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InstName R31 SYMATTR Value 20k SYMBOL res -1696 -2112 R0 SYMATTR InstName R32 SYMATTR Value 36k SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 SYMBOL res -1696 -1344 R0 SYMATTR InstName R33 SYMATTR Value 18k SYMBOL npn -1584 -1424 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q5 SYMATTR Value 2N5089 SYMBOL npn -1296 -1424 M0 SYMATTR InstName Q6 SYMATTR Value 2N5089 TEXT -2232 -1200 Left 2 !.MODEL BAS70L D \n+ IS = 3.22E-9 \n+ N = 1.018 \n+ BV = 77 \n+ IBV = 1.67E-7 \n+ RS = 20.89 \n+ CJO =

And the problem with your version of the circuit is that C10 on the output of U4 was 3.3? rather than 3.3u, We've had that problem before.

The LTC6655-1.25 at U1 is an an excellent voltage reference if it is loaded with at least 2.7uF. Technically speaking I should be using the Greek symbol. Using 3300nF is safer, because not every LTSpice user takes advantage of the option to treat "u" as if was the correct Greek alphabet look-alike.

Without enough output capacitance the LTSpice model for the LTC6655-1.25 behaves oddly. I screwed up early on and only used 1uF and the part oscillated.

In your version of the circuit it presents a slowly rising ramp starting at 0V which had crept up to 10mV after 2 seconds.

This doesn't produce the behaviour I intended.

There's also a problem with the BAS70L diode model - your version leaves off the .ENDS line at the end of the Spice directive. The simulation appears to run fine without it, at 30msec/sec, but I'm still nervous about it.

"Bill Sloman" snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in message news:vmso7m$1gtf6$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me...

Aha for some reason I thought that your circuit didn't have any u symbols. It's 3300n now. In any case that's easy to fix. Just open the asc file in a real editor (Notepad++) Under Encoding, Convert to ANSI and save the file. I usually do this with any file obtained online but for some reason I thought that yours had no u symbols. There's also an option in LTSpice under Tools, Settings (Control Panel in your case), Netlist Options convert u to u which I haven't tested yet.

I'll be doing ANSI conversion in Notepad++ every time now.

Removing .ENDS from the BAS70L model doesn't make any difference with versions of LTSpice prior to 24.1.0 But if it's present when you try to simulate in 24.1.0 you'll get errors which make no sense and don't mention BAS70L.

Your circuit still includes the MMBF4391 model which doesn't have .ENDS so why should BAS70L care? I converted BAS70L to a single line in the circuit below, with no difference in simulation that I can see. I've also removed MMBF4391

So now let's simulate the corrected circuit (included below) in 24.1.0 with all updates and also in 17.0.34.0 with no updates at all.

In 24.1.0 the first thing we see is an 0.6V ramp shaped spike lasting about 2us. This appears to be just a startup transient of no consequence. The next thing we see is what looks like 24MHz parasitic oscillation at a level of about 10mV pk Zooming up shows a sinewave with some clipping between -8mV and +10mV. Placing cursors on the trace confirms 24MHz. Reported simulation speed doesn't go above 30us/s Leave simulation running and copy file to another computer running LTSpice 17.0.34.0

U1 is displaced downwards so move it up and connect -ve rail. Simulation now shows five or six settling transients lasting about 0.7s before the output settles at about 1.8V pk Reported simulation speed varies but is mostly between 5 and 12 ms/s Allow simulation to run to 10s. Take a sample of about 100ms near 10s and FFT with Blackman-Harris window.

Go back to 24.1.0 simulation. It's at about 120ms near the end of the first transient which peaks at 5V. Take a sample of a few cycles with amplitude near 2V pk

Conclusion. The difference between the two simulations has nothing to do with C10 or .ENDS in BAS70L but I'd still like to know what it is.

The circuit below was last saved in 17.0.34.0. Check the position and connection of U1 before simulating.

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SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=0.1 SYMBOL cap 160 -960 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C4 SYMATTR Value 3.3p SYMBOL res 48 -896 R0 WINDOW 0 39 33 Left 2 WINDOW 3 40 74 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R1b SYMATTR Value 10k SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=0.1 SYMBOL voltage -1104 -1120 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName V1 SYMATTR Value 12 SYMBOL voltage -1104 -976 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName V2 SYMATTR Value 12 SYMBOL cap -448 -1600 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C5 SYMATTR Value 15n SYMATTR SpiceLine V=63 Rser=4 Lser=12n SYMBOL res -448 -1568 R270 WINDOW 0 27 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R4 SYMATTR Value 10.7k SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 SYMBOL cap -64 -1728 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C6 SYMATTR Value 15n SYMATTR SpiceLine V=63 Rser=4 Lser=12n SYMBOL cap 3104 -1664 R180 WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2 WINDOW 3 24 8 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C8 SYMATTR Value 22n SYMBOL res 2848 -1760 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R10 SYMATTR Value 220k SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1056A 2992 -1456 R0 SYMATTR InstName U5 SYMBOL cap 2784 -1120 R0 SYMATTR InstName C10 SYMATTR Value 3300n SYMBOL cap 2912 -1552 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C11 SYMATTR Value 3.3p SYMBOL Opamps\\OP27 576 -1264 R0 SYMATTR InstName U2 SYMBOL FerriteBead 576 -672 R0 SYMATTR InstName L2 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL cap 752 -1408 R0 SYMATTR InstName C15 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL cap 752 -800 R0 SYMATTR InstName C16 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL FerriteBead -176 -928 R0 SYMATTR InstName L4 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL cap -336 -2000 R0 WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C17 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL cap -336 -1168 R0 WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C18 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL cap 2272 -1184 R0 SYMATTR InstName C21 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL FerriteBead 2288 -1408 R0 SYMATTR InstName L7 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL res -480 -1888 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R22 SYMATTR Value 2.49k SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 SYMBOL FerriteBead -320 -2336 R0 SYMATTR InstName L8 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL cap -752 -1984 R0 WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C7 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL FerriteBead -736 -2352 R0 SYMATTR InstName L3 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL FerriteBead -656 -896 R0 SYMATTR InstName L9 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL cap -864 -1152 R0 WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C23 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL res -160 -1600 R270 WINDOW 0 27 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R26 SYMATTR Value 10.7k SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 SYMBOL res -768 -1808 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R5 SYMATTR Value 4.99k SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 SYMBOL cap -784 -1648 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C19 SYMATTR Value 10p SYMBOL FerriteBead 208 -672 R0 SYMATTR InstName L5 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL FerriteBead 208 -2352 R0 SYMATTR InstName L6 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL cap 320 -1968 R0 WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C20 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL cap -96 -816 R0 WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C22 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL References\\LTC6655-1.25 2560 -1120 R0 SYMATTR InstName U4 SYMBOL cap -64 -1824 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C9 SYMATTR Value 10p SYMBOL FerriteBead 576 -1936 R0 SYMATTR InstName L13 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL cap 704 -1088 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C13 SYMATTR Value 10p SYMBOL res 2592 -1792 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R12 SYMATTR Value 137k SYMBOL res 1376 -1776 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R8 SYMATTR Value 14k SYMBOL res 1216 -1456 R0 SYMATTR InstName R13 SYMATTR Value 56k SYMBOL cap 1312 -1392 R0 SYMATTR InstName C3 SYMATTR Value 18n SYMBOL cap 1056 -1856 R0 SYMATTR InstName C12 SYMATTR Value 18n SYMBOL res 1216 -1568 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R14 SYMATTR Value 14k SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1013 1392 -1632 R0 SYMATTR InstName U6 SYMBOL res 896 -1536 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R15 SYMATTR Value 18.7k SYMBOL res 2048 -1840 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R16 SYMATTR Value 14k SYMBOL cap 1728 -1872 R0 SYMATTR InstName C14 SYMATTR Value 18n SYMBOL res 1888 -1584 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R17 SYMATTR Value 14k SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1013 2064 -1648 R0 SYMATTR InstName U7 SYMBOL res 1568 -1552 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R18 SYMATTR Value 18.7k SYMBOL res 1888 -1408 R0 SYMATTR InstName R19 SYMATTR Value 56k SYMBOL cap 1984 -1344 R0 SYMATTR InstName C24 SYMATTR Value 18n SYMBOL npn -1504 -1008 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q1 SYMATTR Value 2N5089 SYMBOL npn -1712 -1008 M0 SYMATTR InstName Q2 SYMATTR Value 2N5089 SYMBOL res 2384 -1792 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R9 SYMATTR Value 17k SYMBOL res 2416 -1728 R0 SYMATTR InstName R28 SYMATTR Value 68k SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1115 -656 -1472 R0 SYMATTR InstName U3 SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1115 -176 -1584 R0 SYMATTR InstName U8 SYMBOL cap 320 -1376 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C2 SYMATTR Value 3.3p SYMBOL res -1792 -848 R0 SYMATTR InstName R7 SYMATTR Value 68 SYMBOL pnp -1840 -1632 M180 WINDOW 3 84 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value 2N5087 SYMATTR InstName Q3 SYMBOL res -1792 -1984 R0 SYMATTR InstName R11 SYMATTR Value 270k SYMBOL res -1632 -1920 R0 SYMATTR InstName R21 SYMATTR Value 47k SYMBOL pnp -1296 -1824 R180 WINDOW 3 84 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value 2N5087 SYMATTR InstName Q7 SYMBOL pnp -1264 -1824 M180 WINDOW 0 57 29 Left 2 WINDOW 3 60 62 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName Q8 SYMATTR Value 2N5087 SYMBOL res -448 -1328 R270 WINDOW 0 27 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R23 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 SYMBOL res -1376 -2176 R0 SYMATTR InstName R6 SYMATTR Value 1.5k SYMBOL res -1216 -2128 R0 SYMATTR InstName R24 SYMATTR Value 1.5k SYMBOL pnp -1264 -1680 M180 WINDOW 0 57 29 Left 2 WINDOW 3 60 62 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName Q9 SYMATTR Value 2N5087 SYMBOL npn -1504 -1200 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q10 SYMATTR Value 2N5089 SYMBOL res -1376 -2064 R0 SYMATTR InstName R27 SYMATTR Value 6.2 SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1013 -1984 -1744 R0 SYMATTR InstName U9 SYMBOL res -560 -1744 R0 SYMATTR InstName R20 SYMATTR Value 120 SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1056A 3264 -1088 R0 SYMATTR InstName U10 SYMBOL res 3136 -1328 R0 SYMATTR InstName R25 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res 3136 -944 R0 SYMATTR InstName R29 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res -976 -1632 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R30 SYMATTR Value 1 SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 SYMBOL res -1008 -1296 R0 SYMATTR InstName R31 SYMATTR Value 20k SYMBOL res -1696 -2112 R0 SYMATTR InstName R32 SYMATTR Value 36k SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 SYMBOL res -1696 -1344 R0 SYMATTR InstName R33 SYMATTR Value 18k SYMBOL npn -1584 -1424 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q5 SYMATTR Value 2N5089 SYMBOL npn -1296 -1424 M0 SYMATTR InstName Q6 SYMATTR Value 2N5089 TEXT -1736 -600 Left 2 !.MODEL BAS70L D IS = 3.22E-9 N = 1.018 BV = 77 IBV = 1.67E-7 RS = 20.89 CJO = 1.608E-12 VJ = 0.3891 M =