A variation on my current mirror low distortion sine wave oscillator - 10dB less distortion and much the same number of components

Splitting the resistors did help, and the optimum capacitor value at C25, C26, C27 and C28 turned out to be 4.7nF. The second and fifth harmonics were just 80dB below the fundamental and the third 91dB down. Not dramatically good, but respectable.

Other changes were less succesful - the current nmirror approach does suffer from the need to split the waveform in order to generate the asmplitude correction waveform and minimising the 2usec wide switching spikes that show up at cross-over is what it takes to get it to work tolerably well

I've swapped out the LT1115 for the LT1678 - that doesn't seem to suffer from parasitic oscillations in LTSpice 24, so it should simulate tolerably fast.

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\n+ BV = 77 \n+ IBV = 1.67E-7 \n+ RS = 20.89 \n+ CJO = 1.608E-12 \n+ VJ = 0.3891 \n+ M = 0.3683 \n+ FC = 0.5 \n+ EG = 0.69 \n+ XTI = 2 \n.ENDS TEXT 1232 -472 Left 2 ;R2 a,b,c, Vishay Beschlag ACAS06S0830372P1AT precision 10k resistor array \n R1a, R1b Maxim MAX5492LB10000+T 10K resistive divider in a SOT-23-5 package TEXT 1624 -536 Left 2 !.MODEL MMBF4391 NJF VTO=-4.6 BETA=0.02779 LAMBDA=0.00595 RD=1 RS=1 IS=1e-14 CGD=14p CGS=10.5p PB=1 B=1 KF=1e-18 AF=1 FC=0.5 mfg=Motorola TEXT 1232 -536 Left 2 !.tran 0 10s 0s startup

"Bill Sloman" snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in message news:voh7a5$26aqj$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me...

After fixing line wraps I had to move U1 down into position. I then noticed an issue with C10 so I converted to ANSI in Notepad++ and saved the file. Simulation then failed without giving any clue what was wrong. But instead of spending hours tracing the problem I removed .ENDS from the BAS70 model. Simulation now runs fine at about 44 ms/s in LTSPice 24.1.2 FFT is approaching 60dB Simulated circuit included below. I can get 80dB by adding an LC tuned circuit to a simple phase shift oscillator of the type which turns up here:

I'm thinking of trying the sample/hold method posted by JM but with real components. So I need to turn a FET on (not sure for how long yet) at the peaks of the sine wave.

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-62 54 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C17 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL cap -336 -1168 R0 WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C18 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL cap 2368 -1184 R0 SYMATTR InstName C21 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL FerriteBead 2384 -1408 R0 SYMATTR InstName L7 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL res -480 -1888 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R22 SYMATTR Value 2.49k SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 SYMBOL FerriteBead -320 -2384 R0 SYMATTR InstName L8 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL cap -752 -1984 R0 WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C7 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL FerriteBead -736 -2384 R0 SYMATTR InstName L3 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL FerriteBead -656 -896 R0 SYMATTR InstName L9 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL cap -864 -1152 R0 WINDOW 0 46 -5 Left 2 WINDOW 3 50 71 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C23 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL res -160 -1600 R270 WINDOW 0 27 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R26 SYMATTR Value 10.7k SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 SYMBOL res -768 -1808 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R5 SYMATTR Value 4.87k SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 SYMBOL cap -784 -1648 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C19 SYMATTR Value 10p SYMBOL FerriteBead 208 -672 R0 SYMATTR InstName L5 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL FerriteBead 208 -2384 R0 SYMATTR InstName L6 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL cap 320 -1968 R0 WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C20 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL cap -96 -816 R0 WINDOW 0 -60 15 Left 2 WINDOW 3 -62 54 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName C22 SYMATTR Value 100n SYMBOL References\\LTC6655-1.25 2656 -1120 R0 SYMATTR InstName U4 SYMBOL cap -64 -1824 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C9 SYMATTR Value 10p SYMBOL FerriteBead 672 -1936 R0 SYMATTR InstName L13 SYMATTR Value 1000n SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.2 Rser=0.562 Rpar=750 Cpar=350f mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="782422601 WE-CBA 0402" SYMBOL cap 800 -1088 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C13 SYMATTR Value 10p SYMBOL res 2688 -1792 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R12 SYMATTR Value 137k SYMBOL res 1472 -1776 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R8 SYMATTR Value 14k SYMBOL res 1312 -1456 R0 SYMATTR InstName R13 SYMATTR 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SYMATTR InstName R31 SYMATTR Value 6.8k SYMBOL cap -2048 -960 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C25 SYMATTR Value 4.7n SYMBOL res -1792 -2016 R0 SYMATTR InstName R32 SYMATTR Value 6.8k SYMBOL cap -1824 -2048 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C26 SYMATTR Value 4.7n SYMBOL res -1792 -1760 R0 SYMATTR InstName R33 SYMATTR Value 6.8k SYMBOL cap -1824 -1872 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C27 SYMATTR Value 4.7n SYMBOL res -2176 -1296 R0 SYMATTR InstName R35 SYMATTR Value 6.8k SYMBOL cap -2048 -1152 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C28 SYMATTR Value 4.7n SYMBOL res -2272 -1440 R0 SYMATTR InstName R36 SYMATTR Value 12000k SYMBOL res -1712 -2400 R0 SYMATTR InstName R37 SYMATTR Value 12000k SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1678 -656 -1408 R0 SYMATTR InstName U3 SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1678 -176 -1520 R0 SYMATTR InstName U8 TEXT 2712 -2168 Left 2 !.MODEL BAS70L D \n+ IS = 3.22E-9 \n+ N = 1.018 \n+ BV = 77 \n+ IBV = 1.67E-7 \n+ RS = 20.89 \n+ CJO =

When I picked up your text file, I noted that C10 (on the output of U4, the LTC6655-1.25 voltage reference) had gone back to 3.3 - no suffix. I set it back to 3300n(F) and the circuit worked as it did for me with the harmonics mostly 80dB down with the third harmonic about 91dB down

I put it back in again. and it didn't make any difference to my simulation.

Not having the right value capacitor at C10 usually totally messes it up. We've had that issue before.

Where? There's a lot of stuff there.

It's probably relying on the change in current gain with changing collector-base voltage. It is a small effect - the Early effect - and non-linear.

Sample and holds tend to put spikes on the supply rails. Keeping them out of the output can take a lot of work.

"Bill Sloman" snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in message news:vol49p$2vd0d$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me...

It will for anyone else using 24.1.2 I note that the model for MMBF4391 is still present and does not have .ENDS so why should BAS70 need it? In 24.1.2 you get errors which make no sense and do not mention BAS70.

C10 is 3.3uF Changing to 3300n and resimulating makes no difference. Definitely only 60dB difference between 1kHz and 2,3,4,5kHz Exact circuit I'm simulating (in 24.1.2) included below.

Phase shift oscillator with feedback from the collector through CRCRCRCR to the base.

Yeah I've had that problem before, decades ago. A capacitively coupled inverted sampling signal was able to sufficiently remove the problem of the sampling signal appearing in the output. But that may not work at 140dB down.

Here is the exact version of your circuit from my most recent simulation of it.

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= 1.018 \n+ BV = 77 \n+ IBV = 1.67E-7 \n+ RS = 20.89 \n+ CJO =

The BAS70 model dates back to 2015. It's a classic Spice model - and LTSpice is supposed to run them.

And when I run it (after having put U1 back where I intended it to go and restored it's connection to the negative rail) I got the second to the fifth harmonics harmonics 80dB below the fundamental with the third

I did let it settle down for two seconds before taking the FFT of V(out) onver the next second or so.

That is the simplest phase shift oscillator. Why didn't you identify it when you first mentioned it?

Reduce rather than remove. Cancellation schemes rarely work perfectly.

Give or take the usual problems.

"Bill Sloman" snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote in message news:vompa5$3bjpm$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me...

Online searching finds "A SPICE model starts with a .SUBCKT statement and ends with an .ENDS statement" which does not seem to be applicable here.

LTspice 24.1.2 for Windows Circuit: C:\Users\Edward\Desktop\sloman 14 Feb 2025\sloman.net Start Time: Fri Feb 14 11:10:46 2025 C:\Users\Edward\Desktop\sloman 14 Feb 2025\sloman.net(2): This sub-circuit name is not defined. X§U1 N040 N035 N006 N052 N039 LT1360 ^^^^^^^ C:\Users\Edward\Desktop\sloman 14 Feb 2025\sloman.net(22): This sub-circuit name is not defined. X§U5 N037 N019 Vcc Vee N002 LT1056 ^^^^^^^ C:\Users\Edward\Desktop\sloman 14 Feb 2025\sloman.net(25): This sub-circuit name is not defined. X§U2 0 N033 N017 N051 N030 OP27 ^^^^^ C:\Users\Edward\Desktop\sloman 14 Feb 2025\sloman.net(47): This sub-circuit name is not defined. X§U4 N038 N038 0 N037 N037 LTC6655-1.25 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ C:\Users\Edward\Desktop\sloman 14 Feb 2025\sloman.net(57): This sub-circuit name is not defined. X§U6 N032 N021 Vcc Vee filt1 LT1013 ^^^^^^^ C:\Users\Edward\Desktop\sloman 14 Feb 2025\sloman.net(62): This sub-circuit name is not defined. X§U7 N029 N013 Vcc Vee filter2 LT1013 ^^^^^^^ C:\Users\Edward\Desktop\sloman 14 Feb 2025\sloman.net(80): This sub-circuit name is not defined. X§U9 0 N025 Vcc Vee N034 LT1013 ^^^^^^^ C:\Users\Edward\Desktop\sloman 14 Feb 2025\sloman.net(81): This sub-circuit name is not defined. X§U10 0 N044 Vcc Vee N001 LT1056 ^^^^^^^ C:\Users\Edward\Desktop\sloman 14 Feb 2025\sloman.net(87): This sub-circuit name is not defined. X§U11 0 N022 Vcc Vee N023 LT1013 ^^^^^^^ C:\Users\Edward\Desktop\sloman 14 Feb 2025\sloman.net(102): This sub-circuit name is not defined. X§U3 0 N011 N024 N004 N045 LT1678 ^^^^^^^ C:\Users\Edward\Desktop\sloman 14 Feb 2025\sloman.net(103): This sub-circuit name is not defined. X§U8 0 N014 Vout N005 N046 LT1678 ^^^^^^^ The ^^ characters are positioned under the device type. Under LT1360 for the first error. Formatting differences may not show this correctly.

It took me a while not long ago to slowly add/remove parts of your circuit until I found out that removing .ENDS in the BAS70 model on the schematic eliminated the above issues and the simulation in 24.1.0 ran fine.

I ran your circuit to 10 seconds on 24.1.2 (about 4 minutes) and took a sample of about 60 cycles near 10 seconds. I then did an FFT on Vout (U8 output) and selected current zoom extent and Blackman-Harris Window. The vertical scale has 20dB at the top with 1kHz at 0dB one square down. Another three squares down are 2,3,4,5 kHz approaching the 60dB line.

So let's copy the asc file to another computer with LTSPice 17.0.34.0 and no component updates since installation. Fix the position of U1 and add .ENDS to the BAS70 model. Simulate. Speed is about the same 44ms/s but drops to 7ms/s after about 2 seconds simulated and then goes back to 44ms/s Appearance is as above. 3.2V pk initial transient then settling at 1.6V pk. Same FFT as above. Approaching 80dB at 2kHz, 3kHz 4kHz 75dB, 5kHz 65dB Remove .ENDS from BAS70 model and resimulate. Similar result depends a little on exact sample taken, maybe a little worse at 2kHz. Put .ENDS back again and resimulate. Exactly the same FFT result so .ENDS as used here is best removed to avoid issues when upgrading to 24.1.x .ENDS is only an issue in 24.1.0 or later and only in the context described above.

So I wonder which simulation is closer to the truth.

Because it didn't matter and there is more than one example of that type of circuit. Most circuits which turn up there can't manage more than 60dB and those which can are unlikely to manage more than 90dB. It's not long ago when I didn't think I'd do better than 90dB in simulation, but I kept at it. Now I can do 135dB in simulation with all simulated real (yes ok that's a contradiction) components.

"Edward Rawde" snipped-for-privacy@invalid.invalid wrote in message news:voo0i5$31f9$ snipped-for-privacy@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...

...

Other than correcting the position of U1, this circuit simulates fine in either 24.1.2 or 17.0.34.0 It has .ENDS at the end of BAS70 There is one other small difference. Simulation results in 24.1.2 are the same as previously posted. In 17.0.34.0 I'm seeing between 5 and 10dB better than the 24.1.2 simulation.

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WINDOW 0 57 29 Left 2 WINDOW 3 60 62 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName Q9 SYMATTR Value 2N5087 SYMBOL npn -1504 -1200 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q10 SYMATTR Value 2N5089 SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1013 -1936 -1536 R0 SYMATTR InstName U9 SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1056A 3360 -1088 R0 SYMATTR InstName U10 SYMBOL res 3232 -1328 R0 SYMATTR InstName R25 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res 3232 -944 R0 SYMATTR InstName R29 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res -976 -1632 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R30 SYMATTR Value 1 SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 SYMBOL res -560 -1776 R0 SYMATTR InstName R20 SYMATTR Value 108 SYMBOL res -1792 -864 R0 SYMATTR InstName R34 SYMATTR Value 2.7 SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1013 -2320 -1744 R0 SYMATTR InstName U11 SYMBOL npn -2224 -1728 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q4 SYMATTR Value 2N5089 SYMBOL res -2176 -1104 R0 SYMATTR InstName R23 SYMATTR Value 6.8k SYMBOL res -1376 -2176 R0 SYMATTR InstName R6 SYMATTR Value 2.7 SYMBOL res -1072 -2160 R0 SYMATTR InstName R27 SYMATTR Value 47k SYMBOL res -2176 -912 R0 SYMATTR InstName R31 SYMATTR Value 6.8k SYMBOL cap -2048 -960 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C25 SYMATTR Value 4.7n SYMBOL res -1792 -2016 R0 SYMATTR InstName R32 SYMATTR Value 6.8k SYMBOL cap -1824 -2048 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C26 SYMATTR Value 4.7n SYMBOL res -1792 -1760 R0 SYMATTR InstName R33 SYMATTR Value 6.8k SYMBOL cap -1824 -1872 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C27 SYMATTR Value 4.7n SYMBOL res -2176 -1296 R0 SYMATTR InstName R35 SYMATTR Value 6.8k SYMBOL cap -2048 -1152 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C28 SYMATTR Value 4.7n SYMBOL res -2272 -1440 R0 SYMATTR InstName R36 SYMATTR Value 12000k SYMBOL res -1712 -2400 R0 SYMATTR InstName R37 SYMATTR Value 12000k SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1678 -656 -1408 R0 SYMATTR InstName U3 SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1678 -176 -1520 R0 SYMATTR InstName U8 TEXT 1232 -472 Left 2 ;R2 a,b,c, Vishay Beschlag ACAS06S0830372P1AT precision 10k resistor array \n R1a, R1b Maxim MAX5492LB10000+T

On Mon, 10 Feb 2025 17:18:01 +1100, Bill Sloman snipped-for-privacy@ieee.org wrote:

What is the point of a push-pull current mirror? You don't need response at dc. A "class A" (for want of a better term) mirror with minimal current deviation will have distortion levels orders of magnitude less than the circuit you propose.

Version 4 SHEET 1 3020 1796 WIRE 80 -208 -288 -208 WIRE 800 -208 160 -208 WIRE -288 -96 -288 -208 WIRE 80 -96 -288 -96 WIRE 400 -96 160 -96 WIRE -288 32 -288 -96 WIRE -176 32 -288 32 WIRE -32 32 -96 32 WIRE 48 32 -32 32 WIRE 208 32 128 32 WIRE 256 32 208 32 WIRE 400 32 400 -96 WIRE 400 32 320 32 WIRE 464 32 400 32 WIRE 608 32 544 32 WIRE 656 32 608 32 WIRE 800 32 800 -208 WIRE 800 32 720 32 WIRE -1488 48 -1488 -32 WIRE -1328 48 -1328 -32 WIRE -1152 48 -1152 -32 WIRE -864 48 -928 48 WIRE -736 48 -800 48 WIRE -288 144 -288 32 WIRE -176 144 -288 144 WIRE 208 144 208 32 WIRE 256 144 208 144 WIRE 608 144 608 32 WIRE 656 144 608 144 WIRE -928 160 -928 48 WIRE -864 160 -928 160 WIRE -736 160 -736 48 WIRE -736 160 -784 160 WIRE -32 160 -32 32 WIRE -32 160 -112 160 WIRE 400 160 400 32 WIRE 400 160 320 160 WIRE 800 160 800 32 WIRE 800 160 720 160 WIRE 832 160 800 160 WIRE -1488 176 -1488 128 WIRE -1328 176 -1328 128 WIRE -1328 176 -1488 176 WIRE -176 176 -288 176 WIRE 256 176 224 176 WIRE 656 176 624 176 WIRE 224 208 224 176 WIRE 624 208 624 176 WIRE -1776 272 -1920 272 WIRE -1488 272 -1488 176 WIRE -1488 272 -1696 272 WIRE -1152 272 -1152 128 WIRE -1056 272 -1152 272 WIRE -928 272 -928 160 WIRE -928 272 -992 272 WIRE -848 272 -928 272 WIRE -736 288 -736 160 WIRE -736 288 -784 288 WIRE -672 288 -736 288 WIRE -416 288 -608 288 WIRE -288 288 -288 176 WIRE -288 288 -336 288 WIRE -208 288 -288 288 WIRE 208 288 -128 288 WIRE 400 288 400 160 WIRE 400 288 208 288 WIRE -848 304 -928 304 WIRE -1920 336 -1920 272 WIRE -1856 336 -1920 336 WIRE -1760 336 -1792 336 WIRE -928 336 -928 304 WIRE 400 336 400 288 WIRE -1488 384 -1488 272 WIRE -1488 384 -1648 384 WIRE -1648 416 -1648 384 WIRE -1920 448 -1920 336 WIRE -1872 448 -1920 448 WIRE 400 448 400 416 WIRE 512 448 400 448 WIRE -1760 464 -1760 336 WIRE -1760 464 -1808 464 WIRE -1712 464 -1760 464 WIRE 368 464 336 464 WIRE -1872 480 -1920 480 WIRE -1488 496 -1488 384 WIRE 368 496 368 464 WIRE 400 496 400 448 WIRE 512 496 512 448 WIRE -1648 544 -1648 512 WIRE -1552 544 -1648 544 WIRE -1920 560 -1920 480 WIRE -1648 576 -1648 544 WIRE 384 608 384 560 WIRE 512 608 512 576 WIRE 512 608 384 608 WIRE -32 656 -32 160 WIRE 208 656 208 288 WIRE 384 656 384 608 WIRE 800 656 800 160 WIRE -1648 688 -1648 656 WIRE -32 752 -32 720 WIRE 208 752 208 720 WIRE 384 752 384 720 WIRE 800 752 800 720 WIRE -1152 848 -1152 272 WIRE -400 880 -416 880 WIRE -320 880 -336 880 WIRE -240 880 -256 880 WIRE -160 880 -176 880 WIRE -32 880 -32 832 WIRE 208 880 208 832 WIRE 208 880 -32 880 WIRE 384 880 384 832 WIRE 384 880 208 880 WIRE 800 880 800 832 WIRE 800 880 384 880 WIRE -1488 896 -1488 592 WIRE -1216 896 -1488 896 WIRE -1904 944 -1904 912 WIRE -1904 944 -1952 944 WIRE -1952 960 -1952 944 WIRE -1904 976 -1904 944 WIRE -1152 976 -1152 944 WIRE -1152 976 -1280 976 WIRE -32 976 -32 880 WIRE -416 992 -416 880 WIRE -320 992 -416 992 WIRE -160 992 -160 880 WIRE -160 992 -256 992 WIRE -1488 1040 -1488 896 WIRE -1152 1040 -1152 976 WIRE -416 1072 -416 992 WIRE -368 1072 -416 1072 WIRE -256 1072 -304 1072 WIRE -160 1072 -160 992 WIRE -160 1072 -176 1072 WIRE -1280 1088 -1280 976 WIRE -1280 1088 -1424 1088 WIRE -1216 1088 -1280 1088 WIRE -160 1184 -160 1072 WIRE -160 1184 -240 1184 WIRE -32 1184 -32 1056 WIRE -32 1184 -160 1184 WIRE 48 1184 -32 1184 WIRE 176 1184 128 1184 WIRE -1152 1200 -1152 1136 WIRE -1040 1200 -1152 1200 WIRE -512 1200 -960 1200 WIRE -416 1200 -416 1072 WIRE -416 1200 -512 1200 WIRE -304 1200 -416 1200 WIRE -208 1216 -240 1216 WIRE -208 1264 -208 1216 WIRE -1488 1280 -1488 1136 WIRE -1360 1280 -1488 1280 WIRE -1152 1280 -1152 1200 WIRE -1152 1280 -1296 1280 WIRE -1488 1376 -1488 1280 WIRE -1152 1376 -1152 1280 WIRE -1488 1504 -1488 1456 WIRE -1152 1504 -1152 1456 FLAG 224 208 0 FLAG 624 208 0 FLAG 832 160 vout FLAG -272 1168 vcc FLAG -272 1232 vee FLAG -208 1264 0 FLAG 336 464 0 FLAG 240 1184 vee FLAG -1920 560 0 FLAG -1952 960 0 FLAG -1904 832 vcc FLAG -1840 432 vcc FLAG -1488 -32 vcc FLAG -1152 -32 vcc FLAG -1904 1056 vee FLAG -1648 688 vee FLAG -1488 1504 vee FLAG -1152 1504 vee FLAG -1840 496 vee FLAG -512 1200 vg FLAG -144 128 vcc FLAG -144 192 vee FLAG 288 128 vcc FLAG 288 192 vee FLAG 688 128 vcc FLAG 688 192 vee FLAG -816 256 vcc FLAG -816 320 vee FLAG -928 336 0 FLAG -1328 -32 vtap FLAG 400 -96 vtap SYMBOL res -80 16 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 10K SYMBOL res 144 16 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R2 SYMATTR Value 16K SYMBOL res 560 16 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R3 SYMATTR Value 16K SYMBOL cap 320 16 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMATTR Value 10n SYMBOL cap 720 16 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C2 SYMATTR Value 10n SYMBOL res 176 -224 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R4 SYMATTR Value 10K SYMBOL res 176 -80 M270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R5 SYMATTR Value 82k SYMBOL cap -256 976 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C3 SYMATTR Value 1u SYMBOL res 32 1200 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R10 SYMATTR Value 330K SYMBOL diode 176 1200 R270 WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName D1 SYMATTR Value 1N914 SYMBOL res -48 960 R0 SYMATTR InstName R11 SYMATTR Value 40.2K SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1679 -272 1200 M0 SYMATTR InstName U7 SYMBOL res 528 592 R180 WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R18 SYMATTR Value 10K SYMBOL res 416 432 R180 WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2 WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2 SYMATTR InstName R19 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL diode -16 656 M0 SYMATTR InstName D2 SYMATTR Value 1N914 SYMBOL diode 224 656 M0 SYMATTR InstName D12 SYMATTR Value 1N914 SYMBOL diode 368 656 R0 SYMATTR InstName D13 SYMATTR Value 1N914 SYMBOL diode 816 656 M0 SYMATTR InstName D14 SYMATTR Value 1N914 SYMBOL res -48 736 R0 SYMATTR InstName R13 SYMATTR Value 68k SYMBOL res 192 736 R0 SYMATTR InstName R14 SYMATTR Value 68k SYMBOL res 400 736 M0 SYMATTR InstName R15 SYMATTR Value 68k SYMBOL res 784 736 R0 SYMATTR InstName R16 SYMATTR Value 68k SYMBOL OpAmps\\opamp 448 528 R90 SYMATTR InstName U1 SYMATTR SpiceLine Aol=5Meg SYMATTR SpiceLine2 GBW=60Meg SYMBOL res -1504 1360 R0 SYMATTR InstName R17 SYMATTR Value 250 SYMBOL pnp -1552 592 M180 WINDOW 3 84 0 Left 2 SYMATTR Value 2N3906 SYMATTR InstName Q1 SYMBOL res -1504 32 R0 SYMATTR InstName R20 SYMATTR Value 150k SYMBOL npn -1216 848 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q2 SYMATTR Value 2N3904 SYMBOL Opamps\\LT1013 -1840 400 R0 SYMATTR InstName U2 SYMBOL voltage -1904 816 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName V3 SYMATTR Value 15 SYMBOL voltage -1904 960 R0 WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0 SYMATTR InstName V4 SYMATTR Value 15 SYMBOL res -1168 1360 R0 SYMATTR InstName R21 SYMATTR Value 250 SYMBOL res -1168 32 R0 SYMATTR InstName R22 SYMATTR Value 150K SYMBOL res -768 144 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R23 SYMATTR Value 20k SYMBOL res -1344 32 R0 SYMATTR InstName R24 SYMATTR Value 2.7Meg SYMBOL npn -1216 1040 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q3 SYMATTR Value 2N3904 SYMBOL npn -1424 1040 M0 SYMATTR InstName Q4 SYMATTR Value 2N3904 SYMBOL npn -1712 416 R0 SYMATTR InstName Q5 SYMATTR Value 2N3904 SYMBOL res -1664 560 R0 SYMATTR InstName R25 SYMATTR Value 5Meg SYMBOL cap -1360 1296 R270 WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName C6 SYMATTR Value 470u SYMBOL res -944 1184 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R26 SYMATTR Value 150K SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1679 -144 160 R0 SYMATTR InstName U5 SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1679 288 160 R0 SYMATTR InstName U6 SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1679 688 160 R0 SYMATTR InstName U8 SYMBOL OpAmps\\LT1679 -816 288 R0 SYMATTR InstName U3 SYMBOL res -1680 256 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R7 SYMATTR Value 1k SYMBOL cap -1792 320 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C9 SYMATTR Value 10p SYMBOL cap -800 32 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C10 SYMATTR Value 10p SYMBOL res -112 272 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R8 SYMATTR Value 10k SYMBOL res -320 272 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName R9 SYMATTR Value 560 SYMBOL cap -992 256 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C5 SYMATTR Value 1u SYMBOL cap -608 272 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C8 SYMATTR Value 1u SYMBOL res -272 1088 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName R6 SYMATTR Value 47k SYMBOL cap -304 1056 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2 SYMATTR InstName C4 SYMATTR Value 10u SYMBOL diode -400 896 R270 WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName D3 SYMATTR Value 1N914 SYMBOL diode -320 896 R270 WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName D4 SYMATTR Value 1N914 SYMBOL diode -240 896 R270 WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2 WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2 SYMATTR InstName D5 SYMATTR Value 1N914 TEXT -1992 -16 Left 2 !.tran 0 10 0 1u startup TEXT -2000 -128 Left 2 !.options plotwinsize=0 numdgt=15 TEXT -2000 -72 Left 2 !.lib opamp.sub TEXT -1992 32 Left 2 !.save v(vout)

.ends is only used to end a .subckt so ltspice is correct to warn about it.

Yes I came to that conclusion a few minutes ago. In versions prior to 24.1.0 .ENDS appears to be ignored when used without .SUBCKT But In 24.1.0 or later the use of .ENDS without .SUBCKT can cause a simulation to fail with warnings which are not helpful when tracing the cause of the problem.

It starts up faster.

But you do have to wait a while for blocking capacitors to charge up.

About 140dB down, compared with the 80dB I got, even after I'd pushed up the damping resistor at R6 from your 47k to 220k. Even then, I cut 5 seconds of simulation time before I was game to start the FFT.

Good that we've finally go that sorted out.

Is there any specific reason for the npn Q5? Replacing it and R25 with a single 100k resistor from U2 to Q1 base seems to work just as well.

Complementary pairs often work better than simple emitter followers. John May probably has a good reason for the choice. I've used them from time to time.

The usual market for these oscillators is audophiles - they use them to test complete speaker systems. A slow settling DC offset can jam the voice coils of the woofers and sub-woofers at one end of their travel for quite a while. This isn't an attractive feature.

But it's not a Sziklai pair. Both base-emiiter currents flow through R25

The Sziklai pair has been used for centuries. There's one on page 566 (Pdf page 16)

It's not required here (it's a cut/paste from a different circuit which uses a different opamp).

That's a bit big, no resistor required unless there's sign of oscillation at the opamp, and then a few 10/100s ohm.

That seems a bit high, I measured H2/H3 at about -155/-175 dBc (see attached).

It's still exploiting the same idea.

The Wikipedia page lists a 1957 patent. Transistors had been around for perhaps ten years by then. I got into electronics around 1966 (as a graduate student in chemistry) and knew about complementary Darlington pairs from early on, though nobody called them Sziklai pairs back then.

John May's post makes it clear that he didn't have a good reason to go for that arrangement - it was cut and pasted from from a earlier circuit where it did make more sense. He also make it clear that your modification wasn't well thought out - the 100k resistor isn't required at all, and would degrade the performance of the circuit (though not enough for anybody to notice).

Bill. The current in the resistor is about 500 nA. Why would the resistor degrade the performance?