That's not what I was referring to, what I meant was if you'd tried the constant current circuit I posted earlier.
But now I'm totally confused!
What is the opamp used for and can you post a schematic of your setup somewhere, please?
If you have access to binary newsgroups, alt.binaries.schematics.electronic would work.
JF
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John,
this is my setup. I have used OP27.
-----------------------------. .-----------. | | | | | | | === \\ o \\ o \\ o | | | PGND \\ \\ \\ | | |\\| | \\. \\. \\. | '-----|-\\ | ___ ___ o o o | | >--o--|___|---|---------|___|-| | | | '-----------|+/ | | | | | |/| | |\\| | .-. .-. .-. |---|-\\ | | | | | | | | >-
------| | | | | | | |-------- | |-----|+/ '-' '-' '-' | | | |/| | | | | |\\| | | | | | |---|-\\ | ___ | \\ o \\ o \\ o | >- | -|___|- | \\ \\ \\ .---|+/ | \\. \\. \\. | |/| .-. o o o | | | | | | | | | '-----------------------------' '-' | | === GND (created by AACircuit v1.28.6 beta 04/19/05
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- This is how it came out on this end:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ok, John, There are 3 resistors that only one of them is connected via 2 switches and three Op27 are configured as a Differential amplifier. Nothing complex, really. I hope it is clear enough.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it is, but let's go slowly here in order to eke out a proper solution for your problem.
I've taken the liberty of redrawing your circuit in order to make it easier to visualize and to remove any existing ambiguities, and this is what I think you have:
.VIN>--O--------O--------O------|+\\ . |S1A |S2A |S3A | >-+-[R4]-+---+ . O-> | O-> | O-> | +-|-/U1 | | | +V . | | | | | [R5] | | . [R1] [R2] [R3] +------+ | +-|+\\ . | | | GND | >--+ . O-> | O-> | O-> | +-|-/ U3 | . |S1B |S2B |S3B | | | .GND>--O--------O--------O------|+\\ | -V | . | >-+-[R6]-----+--[R7--+ . +-|-/U2 | . | | . +------+
Am I right?
JF
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If they did, he wouldn't be an amateur, which maes this a less-than- useful claim.
Only if they failed to understand why national standards laboratories exist in the first place. For a self-proclaimed supporter of the free market, you seem to be strangely insistent on the sort of rigid central supply of calibration services that characterised the state- controlled economies of Eastern Europe until recently.
I've actually built stuff from time to time, and when I do it, it works. Not everybody has the skill of disciplined fantasy.
ke this.
Read what I actually suggested that he should do - posted about an hour after your post, but long before I saw your post - where I advvise him against building a Thompson-Lampard calculable cross- capacitor.
es.
Read what he has posted - he has bought several, and is uhappy that they don't stay calibrated.
ay and sent to a local
I suggested that he buy a top of the line four terminal reference resistor from Vishay. When I last looked they were at at least an order of magnitude cheaper than another calibrated digital multimeter. It is possible that they too show up on ebay - but there doesn't seem to be anything there at the moment. The only four lead resistor was a
100ppm/C part.
As in encouraging the OP to rush out an buy yet another calibrated DVM when he isn't happy with ones he's got? Pointing him at precision "coaxial" AC bridges built around ratio transformers may not seem realistic to you, but it does at least offer him another way of tackling his problem.
If he's desperate enough to contemplate building a Thompson-Lampard calculable cross-capacitor, he's presumably desperate enough to contemplate the rather less demanding task of getting hold of or building the necessary ratio transformers
-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
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I am not bound by your absurd definitions of what I am.
There are lots of cal labs around. But I wouldn't use one that can't trace their measurement chain to a national standard. What's the point of having a free market in the definition of a volt?
this.
I think he has other problems. And nothing but a primary standard stays calibrated forever.
and sent to a local
But then he needs a good voltmeter too. Why not just buy a dmm that does it all?
As I said, I think he has other problems.
I have several of them, 6-digit ratio transformer boxes, flea market gadgets, apparently linear to a few PPM as far as I can tell. But not very useful for resistance calibration and totally useless for DC current.
I think he needs to straighten out the gadget he's trying to build and calibrate.
John
___
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes JF, That's what I meant. Thanks for the effort. I use AACuircuit and when I post it, It appeared right.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MooseFET, The switches are double pole actually (DPST) and when a switch turns on, it places a resistor in current path. At any time only one resistor is in current path. Differential amplifier reads voltage of common ends of switches.
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It looks to me like you're measuring the switch resistance as well as the resistor resistance. That may add big errors.
Amplifier common-mode rejection ratio will need to be very good, too.
John
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John, you are right switch resistance are in the current path, but they are negligible I assume(
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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What does the output of the diffamp drive?
John
read
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signal is read by an ADC.
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It costs money to have your secondary standard calibrated against a primary standard. Make the service a monopoly, and the sole supplier can charge what they like.
like this.
uses.
He hasn't told us why he hasn't sent them back for recalibration.
ebay and sent to a local
As I've mentioned, he does seem to have already gone down that route. Telling him to do it again isn't useful advice.
And that's you excuse for telling him to do what he has done before, which didn't seem to work?
They should be good to one part in ten million, if properly built.
You use them to set up an AC-excited resistance bridge (a Blumlein bridge) which allows you to compare a wide range of resistors with a single secondary standard resistor with fairly spectacular precision - national standards laboratories have been doing this for many years, and publish at length on the subject.
Too true. Since you posted this message, you've got into the discussion between Petkovic, John Fields and MooseFET, which does make it clear that Petkovic doesn't seem to understand the idea of using a bridge to compare two resistors, which happens to be the gadget he should be trying to build and calibrate.
An AC-excited bridge does have advantages over the classic Wheatstone bridge, and using transformer windings (as in your flea-market junk) for two of the arms (the Blumlein bridge) is even better, at least in the fantasy world inhabited by national standards laboratories.
-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
-------------------
-------------------
This is a clumsy way of comparing two resistors. The classic circuit for comparing two resistors is a direct-current excited Wheatstone bridge, where you use a potentiometer to balance the bridge and establish the ratio of the resistors being compared.
As John Larkin pointed out earlier in this thread, it is difficult to get real precison out of a DC excited bridge because the imbalance signal can be influenced by thermocouple voltages around the circuit and off-sets in any op amps you use to realise the circuit. As John went on to point out these can be corrected out by eliminating or reversing the DC voltage across the bridge from time to time.
If you go over to an AC-excited bridge you can use transformer windings in two arms of the bridge - the Blumlein bridge - and replace the potentiometer with one or more ratio transformers, which are rather easier to build than a precision potentiometer, and can be a good deal more precise. You do need a stable AC source to drive the bridge and in-phase and quadrature AC detectors to measure the out-of- balance signal, but all this has been standard practice for many years now.
-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a clumsy way of comparing two resistors. The classic circuit for comparing two resistors is a direct-current excited Wheatstone bridge, where you use a potentiometer to balance the bridge and establish the ratio of the resistors being compared.
As John Larkin pointed out earlier in this thread, it is difficult to get real precison out of a DC excited bridge because the imbalance signal can be influenced by thermocouple voltages around the circuit and off-sets in any op amps you use to realise the circuit. As John went on to point out these can be corrected out by eliminating or reversing the DC voltage across the bridge from time to time.
If you go over to an AC-excited bridge you can use transformer windings in two arms of the bridge - the Blumlein bridge - and replace the potentiometer with one or more ratio transformers, which are rather easier to build than a precision potentiometer, and can be a good deal more precise. You do need a stable AC source to drive the bridge and in-phase and quadrature AC detectors to measure the out-of- balance signal, but all this has been standard practice for many years now.
-- Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
this.
ebay and sent to a local
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill, I will build a Blumlein bridge to find out exact value of my resistors and it solves problem of calibrating one range but as it is evident in my original post, I also need that when I change current measuring resistors, I read the same value in different current ranges. As I've mentioned I've used 0.1% resistors but this problem persists, so in addition of knowing exact value of my resistors I have to find a way to eliminate this problem.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill,
The circuit I've shown is not intended to compare 3 resistors. It is not intended to measure resistance and it is not intended to replace a Blumlein bridge. The sole purpose of this circuit is to measure current continuously from 1mA-10A. For measuring current accurately, I need to know the exact value of resistors and that needs another setup and as you indicated probably a Blumlein bridge.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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