coil design for 1MHz Magnetic field

You're absolutely right that we need more info about the specimen. I'd be happy enough just with the expected net power dissipation in the sample. But if the coil unloaded Q is too low, you may not be able to get enough field strength to properly excite the sample, even if you are using a tiny volume of sample that doesn't lower the Q appreciably. That is, there's a lower limit to the useable coil unloaded Q. If the sample does significantly lower the Q, that means that you'll be able to couple a significant percentage of the available power to the sample. But maybe the sample is a small enough volume that it doesn't need much power to achieve the required heating.

The effect of the sample may well be nonlinear--that is, the net Q at high power may not be the same as the net Q at microwatt power levels. But if you know the Qs with and without sample at the operating power level, you then also know what percentage of the applied power is dissipated in the sample.

All of which comes right back to your very good comment, "So I think more info is needed about the specimen..."

Cheers, Tom

Reply to
Tom Bruhns
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I'm not sure it has to be such an issue. The issue is magnetic field ~= current in the coil. With an appropriate coil design it's likely an APEX PA09 power amp can create qiuie's RF current through the coil, and solve the problem.

p.s. Could we please consider using our real names, qiuie, so we know who we're talking to?

--
 Thanks,
    - Win
Reply to
Winfield Hill

Sorry for not so complete description in my OP. I was not sure if I should say too much to cause unnecessary confusions. But at this point, I guess I shall definitely elaborate the problem in more detail, if you can bear with me.

The specimen is in liquid form, that is, small magnetic particles dispersed in some solvent, eg. water. So the volume of the specimen can be as small as a few hundred microliters, but also very much flexible, as long as it fits into the coil. In principle I would like to put my specimen in the center of the coil, where the magnetic field strength is stronger and more uniform. From E&M, the magnetic field is the same everywhere inside an INFINITE long coil. But in reality, magnetic field drops a lot even inside the coil but around the edge. So based on this consideration, I would like to have a coil of certain size to well-envelop my specimen. But also a relatively larger inductance to gain a larger magnetic field. In my LC resonance circuit, I also put a very small resistance (0.25ohm) in series with the coil to monitor the current flowing through the coil so to roughly calculate the magnetic field strength inside the coil. But when I actually do the experiment, I would short the resistor.

I also have the same question as of how the power fed into the circuit would be distributed. I mean If I pump 5W into the loaded circuit, and I would hope more power to be dissipated by my specimen (I'm not quite sure at this point, how much I would actually need.), then power dissipated by the coil would be reduced, which means the current flowing through would be reduced too, which means the magnetic field strength would be reduced. Then the power absorbed by my specimen would be reduced. Well, I really can't think this through.

Reply to
qiuie

Think of the specimen as the secondary of a lossy transformer - the current and voltage in the inductor are out of phase, so you can have a lot of current in the coil but not dissipate a lot of power there. And the power gets dissipated by the resistive component of this imaginary secondary circuit.

Hope This Helps! Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

OK, look at it this way. The total power applied to the circuit must be dissipated (or radiated). You add up all contributions, and they must equal the applied power. If you are applying 5 watts, then you will be dissipating+radiating 5 watts. In such a small coil, you can ignore the radiation component.

The dissipations will primarily be in the wire of the coil and in the specimen (if the specimen is large enough). There may also be significant dissipation in the capacitors you use to get a match to your 50 ohm generator.

The coil, by itself, can be modelled pretty accurately as a pure inductive reactance in series with a pure resistance. Taking Win's example of 0.42uH, and assuming a coil Q (unloaded Q) of 40 (about right, probably, for a 1cm ID coil), that model becomes Z=0.066+j2.639. Note: 2.639/0.066 = Q = 40. If you put 5 watts of 1MHz RF into that coil (using a lossless matching network composed of a couple of good capacitors, from your generator), then the coil must be dissipating 5 watts, and the current must be such that i^2*R=5W. In other words, the current must be sqrt(5/0.066) = 8.7 amps RMS. The dissipation is all in the resistive part of the model. The inductive part only stores energy and does not dissipate it.

If you put your sample inside the coil, it will lower the Q by some amount, because it adds to the dissipation. Let's say that the Q is lowered to 30. Now the model for the inductor + sample is Z =

0.088+j2.639. For 5 watts input as before, the current is sqrt(5/0.088) = 7.53A RMS. But you can also reasonably assume that the contribution of the coil itself is still 0.066 ohms, and the sample is effectively 0.022 ohms. As Rich pointed out, the sample acts like the secondary of a transformer, but the effect of that reflected back to the primary, your coil, is 0.022 ohms. [Note: the sample may also affect the inductance slightly--I'm ignoring that in this calc.] So the power dissipated in the sample (including the liquid! Don't discount that...) is i^2*0.022 = 1.25 watts.

Once you understand that, you can see that if the Q drops by y percent from its coil-only value when you introduce the sample, then y percent of the power will be dissipated in the sample.

Does that help you out of your circular reasoning? Hope so!

Oh, and I really think you should re-read Win's original posting in this thread--I think you will actually find a low inductance coil just as easy or easier to match than one with lots and lots of turns, and it will be easier to make and probably easier to keep cool. For example, if you went with Z=50+j2000 (about 320uH), at 5 watts you'd have .316A and 630 V RMS across the coil. I'd rather work with a bit lower voltage... If you went with Z=0.031+j1.25, so that if you resonate it with a good capacitor it looks like 50 ohms, you get about 16 VRMS, but

12.7 amps RMS, and you'll have trouble finding a capacitor that can take that much current. The important thing to note here is that you will get essentially THE SAME field strength inside the coil at a given power level, independent of the coil's inductance. Pick a coil that's practical in terms of the currents and voltages and matching network complexity.

Cheers, Tom

Reply to
Tom Bruhns

Hello,

Interesting project

Is the above what you need or what you "think" might work?

****************************

edge.

series with the coil to monitor the

strength inside the coil.

When your specimen gets excited by the magnetic field does it exhibit some unusual characteristic that can be measured? Or are you trying to measure a difference compared to a calibrated test sample.

If you are trying to achieve a precision measurement I don't see the accuracy in your .25 ohm current test method, RF at 1 mhz is radiating everywhere it can, including test leads and wires. This will effect most readings and current flow.

I am a garage tinkering hobbyist, can't speak engineer-eze but I see a method of measurement at lower current. I have an idea if I had more than puzzling fragments about the specimens make up and the expected end result? Particles suspended in water in a plastic/glass tube does sound good.

Seems like a great project, good luck.

If Radio Shack doesn't carry the part then I won't build it. (-;

RS Theremin

  • * * Christopher

Temecula CA.USA

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Reply to
Christopher

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