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An interesting view on how 'green' CFLs really are:

I saw the issue covered on TV network news in the '70s.

No, it's considered unmanly by some to not have a horde of kids they fathered, whether they can take care of them, or not. We see the same thing in other countries of so called men that get a woman pregnant, then look for another. They don't give a damn about the women or any of the kids, as long as they can brag about how much of a man they are.

Isn't that what I said?

I said some, not all. You are trying to twist my meaning.

Yawn. you are saying that. I AM TALKING ABOUT THOSE WHO WERE OFFERED HELP TO MOVE TO WHERE THEY COULD IMPROVE THEIR LIVES, BUT CHOSE TO REMAIN WHERE THEY CAN'T EVEN FEED ALL OF THEIR KIDS.

Someone who refuses to work will do so where ever they live, anywhere in the world. You stated above that cultural change is slow. Are you saying you were wrong?

People improve their lives only when they WANT to.

I am the last person to deny help, but for how many generations? I am now 100% disabled, forced to live at a below poverty level on a VA pension that says I am not allowed to work, at all, yet I continue to help others. I learned long ago to limit the help for people who keep coming back, because they are too damn lazy to help themselves. If I had all the time and money I've given away in the last 45 years, I would have my home paid for, a newer vehicle, money in the bank, and not have to worry till I died. I don't, because I helped, and continue to help others.

Where did I even imply a dictatorship? You're trying to put your words into my mouth, again.

So, that is an excuse to leave them in that condition for more generations, with a large percentage of the children dying before puberty?

You aren't the only one. I was born with health problems. I could have applied for, and been declared disabled at 18, but I chose to start working at 13, and worked until a few years ago when I couldn't pass an employment physical.

If enough wanted to leave, provisions can be made. Look at the people who make rafts to leave Cuba, and the South Americans who make their way to Mexico, or the United States. It takes planning, and persistence. People will help, if you approach them the right way.

You stated above that they can't learn because of nutrition problems. These will not be solved in the desert. It will take several generations of them living where food, and education are available to get even some of them to even care. No one needed an education before, so what do they care? They see no reason for it, and never will, as long as they are isolated, by their on choice.

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell
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In developing countries women's main job is having and rearing children. Given alternatives, they often take them.

Education of women is the most effective form of birth control.

James Arthur

Reply to
James Arthur

Say Michael,

Can you elaborate on this? Is the thinking something like, "well, if you start working, clearly you're not 100% 'disabled' now, are you? -- so we're doing to start reducing your pension!" -- Or something similarly ridiculous?

---Joel

Reply to
Joel Koltner

Any paid work at all, and I lose both the pension, and the zero co-pay on medication. IOW, it's all or nothing with the VA. My military medical records are missing, so i had to apply for 'non service connected'. If it was the 'service connected' I should be receiving, I would get over three times what I do, and be allowed dental care. They would give me a power wheelchair and custom van every three years, as well.

BTW, I tried to connect a printer to that last Mandriva Linux computer you sent me, and it wants the administrator password. Could you e-mail me about it?

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

That sucks. :-(

Sheesh... you'd think they'd give you the benefit of the doubt in such cases since presumably it was the government that lost your medical records?

It sounds like you'd have a really good case here for getting some news program interested in demonstrating how servicemen get unfairly screwed over...

(I am happy to see that some states are now waiving or heavily subsidizing college tuition for servicemen, and that a ton of money was allocated a few months back for those who served post-9/11.)

Mmm... try "password" (without quotes)? If it's not that, let me know and I'll try to remember what else it might be.

---Joel

Reply to
Joel Koltner

On the 160 lm/W prototype, noted on the graph as a Cree one: Can you cite a link to it? I frequently check into the "Press Room" section of Cree's website and I have yet to hear of this.

On the statement that 150-160 lumen/watt LEDs will be in production within 1 or 2 years: It appeared to me to take 3 years from announcement of a prototype to availability of production units for 60 lumens/watt.

You state that 1, 3 and 5 watt HPLEDs have efficacies 10 times more than that of incandescents. Ones achieving 80-100 lumens/watt do so at 350 mA, which means slightly over 1 watt. Efficacy is less at higher currents, even with Cree XRE, Seoul Semiconductor P4, and Lumileds Luxeon Rebel and Luxeon K2/TFFC. For example, according to Lumileds' "DS60" datasheet, the top rank of Luxeon K2/TFFC has typical output of 170 lumens at 700 mA (and typical voltage drop around 3.5 volts), for 69 lumens/watt. This figure decreases as current increases from there. The best avauilable from Cree are a little better.

I have yet to know of an available 3 watt LED that achieves 100 lumens/watt at 3 watts. Can you cite one that I can buy?

As for that chart showing among other things percentage of light from the lamp exiting the luminaire ("efficienza corpo radiante"), where does the 30-50% figure for incandescents, repeated for halogens, come from? That chart also has this being 50-60% for CFLs but 95% for LEDs.

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

Reply to
Don Klipstein

Obviously MT should be allowed to work. That could only be good for everyone.

That's the problem with dictates from afar--a bunch of inflexible rules made by people not on the scene, to try and lock out the undeserving.

The main effect being to inconvenience the honest people.

I recently heard of a socialized medicine setup I might even endorse: a city in Texas decided to offer their own. Locally controlled, easily changed by the people in it, responsive to their needs and desires. Offered for $40/month to any employed person who wants it.

The key being that it's theirs, and under their control. No national fights in Congress over benefits, who's eligible, illegal immigrants, etc., no need to convince Nancy Pelosi, the NEA, or whoever.

This could be BS though--I heard of it 3rd-hand by word-of-mouth; haven't verified the details yet.

Cheers, James Arthur

Reply to
James Arthur

On the 160 lm/W prototype, noted on the graph as a Cree one: Can you cite a link to it? I frequently check into the "Press Room" section of Cree's website and I have yet to hear of this.

On the statement that 150-160 lumen/watt LEDs will be in production within 1 or 2 years: It appeared to me to take 3 years from announcement of a prototype to availability of production units for 60 lumens/watt.

That article states that 1, 3 and 5 watt HPLEDs have efficacies 10 times more than that of incandescents. Ones achieving 100 lumens/watt do so at 350 mA, which means slightly over 1 watt. 60 watt "standard" and "soft white" 120V A19 incandescents achieve 14-14.8 lumens/watt and 100 watt ones achieve 16.9-17.5. Efficacy is less at higher currents, even with Cree XRE, Seoul Semiconductor P4, and Lumileds Luxeon Rebel and Luxeon K2/TFFC. For example, according to Lumileds' "DS60" datasheet, the top rank of Luxeon K2/TFFC has typical output of 170 lumens at 700 mA (and typical voltage drop around 3.5 volts), for 69 lumens/watt. This figure decreases as current increases from there. The best avauilable from Cree are a little better.

I have yet to know of an available 3 watt LED that achieves 100 lumens/watt at 3 watts. Can you cite one that I can buy?

As for that chart showing among other things percentage of light from the lamp exiting the luminaire ("efficienza corpo radiante"), where does the 30-50% figure for incandescents, repeated for halogens, come from? That chart also has this being 50-60% for CFLs but 95% for LEDs.

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

Reply to
Don Klipstein

On the 160 lm/W prototype, noted on the graph as a Cree one: Can you cite a link to it? I frequently check into the "Press Room" section of Cree's website and I have yet to hear of this.

On the statement that 150-160 lumen/watt LEDs will be in production within 1 or 2 years: It appeared to me to take 3 years from announcement of a prototype to availability of production units for 60 lumens/watt.

That article states that 1, 3 and 5 watt HPLEDs have efficacies 10 times more than that of incandescents. Ones achieving 100 lumens/watt do so at 350 mA, which means slightly over 1 watt. 60 watt "standard" and "soft white" 120V A19 incandescents achieve 14-14.8 lumens/watt and 100 watt ones achieve 16.9-17.5. Efficacy is less at higher currents, even with Cree XRE, Seoul Semiconductor P4, and Lumileds Luxeon Rebel and Luxeon K2/TFFC. For example, according to Lumileds' "DS60" datasheet, the top rank of Luxeon K2/TFFC has typical output of 170 lumens at 700 mA (and typical voltage drop around 3.5 volts), for 69 lumens/watt. This figure decreases as current increases from there. The best avauilable from Cree are a little better.

I have yet to know of an available 3 watt LED that achieves 100 lumens/watt at 3 watts. Can you cite one that I can buy?

As for that chart showing among other things percentage of light from the lamp exiting the luminaire ("efficienza corpo radiante"), where does the 30-50% figure for incandescents, repeated for halogens, come from? That chart also has this being 50-60% for CFLs but 95% for LEDs.

- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

Reply to
Don Klipstein

Absolutely.

Unless they contracted with doctors themselves, I suspect that $40/month isn't nearly enough for them to break even, unfortunately.

On the other hand, Wal*Mart clinics supposedly run ~$40-$65, which is not that much more than some co-pays (it's $35/visit on the plan I have at work, and it's counted as a "visit" even when you go to do something like pick up lab test results and have the doctor spend literally less than 3 minutes with you to tell you, "everything's fine").

---Joel

Reply to
Joel Koltner

"Executive" care is being offered by doctors in the Phoenix area for $1K/year. They claim the number of patients they need to see per day has dropped by 2/3 and their income is UP.

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

        Liberals are so cute.  Stupid as bricks, but cute.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

"Jim Thompson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Does that cover just seeing doctors? Or does it include some degree of lab work, procedures, etc.?

$1k/year sounds entirely reasonable for "basic" care. Certainly many (possibly most) businesses are spending a lot more than that on their covered employees.

---Joel

Reply to
Joel Koltner

As far as I know it just the cost of the doctor... I'm on Medicare plus Mutual of Omaha Plan-F supplemental ($400/month for the both of us), so I get very good service... zero additional cost.

...Jim Thompson

--
| James E.Thompson, P.E.                           |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC\'s and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |

        Liberals are so cute.  Stupid as bricks, but cute.
Reply to
Jim Thompson

A nit it may be. Kaleeforneeyah requires recycling of all fluorescent lamps. And they do mean all.

Reply to
JosephKK

Get another doctor. Mine just has the receptionist call with negative results.

--
Keith
Reply to
krw

Yes, it is hard to disrespect 50,000 to 100,000 power on hours life.

Reply to
JosephKK 

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Reply to
Emanuele

No, refraining from working is the price that MT has agreed to pay for the disability money.

The guy that pays the piper calls the tune.

Cheers! Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

In extremis, you could always use a live version. Mount the / and /etc as needed and edit the passwd and shadow files as needed. Then set the administrator passwords as you please.

Reply to
JosephKK

No kidding, both me and my employer are spending about $200/mo each for about that level of care. Of course that includes major medical as well, which could be significant added risk.

Reply to
JosephKK

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