12V thru house 110V wiring

Over hyped Electric Car! :(

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid? on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

Or buy a 12v->120v ac invertor, they have about 70-80% efficiency, and your wiring gets not loaded with unreasonable currents. Then put in high efficiency lamps, etc. But you will need about an acre of sun panels, and 10 or twenty deep discharge lead battery's. If you go for an ac invertor, higher battery voltage will be better, use 24 or 48 volts, and choose an invertor accordingly. That will provide better battery efficiency and less losses.

What happens when you put 12v DC across a transformer winding designed for 110V AC?

Sylvia.

If it's a dinky transformer, it might get a little warm. If it's a big one, it would blow a fuse.

But the best answer is "don't do that."

John

I thought large solar panels were 16 to 48 volts. I think it would be easiest to get a mini inverter that produces 120VAC rather than 12VDC. Some will hook up to storage batteries.

12V is difficult to move any distance because the wire losses are so high. It wouldn't be practical for more than a few feet.

--
I will not see posts from Google or e-mails from Yahoo because I must
filter them as spam

And if it's a middle-sized one, it might catch fire! (Goldilocks notwithstanding.)

The other issue is that a voltage drop that wouldn't worry you with 120V can dim your lights by half at 12V.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) net
http://electrooptical.net

I

ng

Not sure of the standard wire size used for 120 operation, but using #12 copper wire, you would get 11.2 volts to a 12 volt, 100 watt light at a distance of 30 feet. Power lost in the wire would be about 6 watts figuring 1.6 milliohms per foot. Probably wouldn't raise the temperature much with 60 feet of wire. Power to the load would drop from 100 to 87 watts. How dim is a 100 watt light operating at 87 watts?

-Bill

t

The rule of thumb is that if you run a light bulb at 90% of rated voltage, you get 30% less light and three times the life. That's close to a cubic relationship. So 87% would be roughly 0.87 cubed, or about 65%.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) net
http://electrooptical.net

As long as the wiring can handle the current you should be alright.

if you don't replace the outlets label the appliances too. plugging a

110AC appliance into 12DC could burn out motors etc, but plugging a 12V appliance into 110 is almost certain to be spectacular.

--
?? 100% natural

You absolutely do not want to do That! I am currently a lead RV technician at a major dealership in the U.S. I deal with 12V 110V hybrid systems in t op end RVs everyday. First, the risk of fire from a current overload is VE RY REAL, if you get a dead short on 12V and it is improperly fused, welcome to a glowing hot wire that will burn everything. Romex is not designed to carry high amperage loads. Low voltage = high amps. Although a running load probably won't exceed 15 amps, DC dead shorts can be dangerous in ina dequate wiring. And if you haven't seen a DC lightbulb dead short itself w hen it burns out and blow a fuse, you haven't worked with low voltage very much.. Think about it, your typical home service box is rated for 150 amps , a 12V Deep cycle battery can deliver 850 cold cranking amps! Wires care about amperage load, not voltage. High amps = High heat. So now that we got that out of the way, here is what you should do, and what would actual ly be to code. Invest in 2 3000watt pure sine wave inverters (not modified sine wave) make sure they are stackable for 220V service. Wire these to pairs of GC6 6volt deep cycle batteries, 1 pair in series to make 12V, each pair wired in parralel to add desired amp hours, use a minimum of 2 gauge leads to connect these and the inverters, and keep the leads as short as po ssible. Disconnect the 6-3 from the service box supplying your power. Wir e each hot wire to the appropriate 30 amp circuit on each inverter (one inv erter carries red, one carries black) Then wire the neutral wire to both, and ground wire to both and drive a grounding rod to terminate the ground t o. This will drive EVERYTHING in that cabin with exactly what it's suppose d to have, and give you plenty of head room for electric motor starts, peak loads, etc. Best of all, you touch nothing that has already been wired ot her than the 4 leads coming from you main. You are essentially making a ne w main powered by your inverters.

Now on to charging. Efficiency of solar energy is garbage. The only truly efficient system out there to run a 12V to 110V conversion is hydroelectri c, but that is a whole nother topic. Your solar panels will average about 30 percent efficient (only when the su n is shining too) Long explanation short, you will ALWAYS consume faster t han you can produce (except for hydroelectric) 2ind solar hybrids are bett er, but not much. Now if you are off grid, how do you supplement this pitf all? Buy a 90amp deck mount converter, and use a generator too.

I too have a cabin semi off grid. 4 400 watt wind turbines, and everything I just said to get. The beauty of it is, if my batteries begin to get low , I flick a switch and they charge off of my power pole. Also keep in mind this system is not for beginners to build, and it costs about $6000. And no, you won't be reimbursed for it because it isn't an authorized power gen eration system.

tly a lead RV technician at a major dealership in the U.S. I deal with 12V 110V hybrid systems in top end RV s everyday. First, the risk of fire from a current ov erload is VERY REAL, if you get a dead short on 12V an d it is improperly fused, welcome to a glowing hot wir e that will burn everything. Romex is not designed to carry high amperage loads. Low voltage = high amps. Although a running load probably won't exceed 15 amps , DC dead shorts can be dangerous in inadequate wiring . And if you haven't seen a DC lightbulb dead short i tself when it burns out and blow a fuse, you haven't w orked with low voltage very much.. Think about it, yo ur typical home service box is rated for 150 amps, a 1

2V Deep cycle battery can deliver 850 cold cranking am ps! Wires care about amperage load, not voltage. Hig h amps = High heat. So now that we got that out of th e way, here is what you should do, and what would actu ally be to code. Invest in 2 3000watt pure sine wave inverters (not modified sine wave) make sure they are stackable for 220V service. Wire these to pairs of G C6 6volt deep cycle batteries, 1 pair in series to mak e 12V, each pair wired in parralel to add desired amp hours, use a minimum of 2 gauge leads to connect these and the inverters, and keep the leads as short as pos sible. Disconnect the 6-3 from the service box supply ing your power. Wire each hot wire to the appropriate 30 amp circuit on each inverter (one inverter carries red, one carries black) Then wire the neutral wire t o both, and ground wire to both and drive a grounding rod to terminate the ground to. This will drive EVERY THING in that cabin with exactly what it's supposed to have, and give you plenty of head room for electric m otor starts, peak loads, etc. Best of all, you touch nothing that has already been wired other than the 4 l eads coming from you main. You are essentially making a new main powered by your inverters.

o charging. Efficiency of solar energy is garbage. T he only truly efficient system out there to run a 12V to 110V conversion is hydroelectric, but that is a who le nother topic.

ut 30 percent efficient (only when the sun is shining too) Long explanation short, you will ALWAYS consume faster than you can produce (except for hydroelectric) 2ind solar hybrids are better, but not much. Now if you are off grid, how do you supplement this pitfall? Buy a 90amp deck mount converter, and use a generato r too.

watt wind turbines, and everything I just said to get . The beauty of it is, if my batteries begin to get l ow, I flick a switch and they charge off of my power p ole. Also keep in mind this system is not for beginne rs to build, and it costs about $6000. And no, you wo n't be reimbursed for it because it isn't an authorize d power generation system.

WHOOPEE DOO !! aren' t you just the clever clogs !!

I would say, mostly good advice, although I disagree with totally trashing solar. It's really a matter of how many solar panels; my house has enough so our solar creates more electricity than we consume. But he's right, a set of solar panels on top of a trailer or a small cabin cannot be sufficient. My brother's cabin in NV has a full roof of panels, and deep-discharge batteries, providing plenty, but he relies on his generator for heavy-draw activities and for topping off his batteries.

--
 Thanks, 
    - Win

Latitude makes a big difference too.

Solar PV is something of a joke in the UK 50N since the sun is only high enough to be useful for half of the year and half the time it is cloudy.

Wind power is better in that respect if you can stand the whine of the turbine. I recall one very early turbine design where the tips vortex interaction with the supporting pole made it sound like a machine gun in a strong wind. This was back in the 1970's oil crisis era. Aerodynamics, permanent magnets and big bearings have come on a long way since then.

--
Regards, 
Martin Brown

2

If you have a power pole, why not just write a check once a month?

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics

_HALF_ the time? What are you, a Tourism Board shill?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs 
Principal Consultant 
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics 
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 

http://electrooptical.net 
http://hobbs-eo.com

do what?

eal with 12V 110V hybrid systems in top end RVs everyday. First, the risk of fire from a current overload is VERY REAL, if you get a dead short on 12 V and it is improperly fused, welcome to a glowing hot wire that will burn everything.

why would you improperly fuse things?

etc etc

Well, OK. MA 42-deg, Britain 55-deg, pretty tough, and yes clouds are murder.

--
 Thanks, 
    - Win

He's talking about the basic efficiency of the PV conversion, which has nothing to do with batteries and inverter technology.

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 5:37:33 AM UTC-4, Rheilly Phoull wrote:

cian at a major dealership in the U.S. I deal with 12V 110V hybrid systems in top end RVs everyday. First, the risk of fire from a current overload i s VERY REAL, if you get a dead short on 12V and it is improperly fused, wel come to a glowing hot wire that will burn everything. Romex is not designe d to carry high amperage loads. Low voltage = high amps. Although a run ning load probably won't exceed 15 amps, DC dead shorts can be dangerous in inadequate wiring. And if you haven't seen a DC lightbulb dead short itse lf when it burns out and blow a fuse, you haven't worked with low voltage v ery much.. Think about it, your typical home service box is rated for 150 amps, a 12V Deep cycle battery can deliver 850 cold cranking amps! Wires c are about amperage load, not voltage. High amps = High heat. So now tha t we got that out of the way, here is what you should do, and what would ac tually be to code. Invest in 2 3000watt pure sine wave inverters (not modi fied sine wave) make sure they are stackable for 220V service. Wire these to pairs of GC6 6volt deep cycle batteries, 1 pair in series to make 12V, each pair wired in parralel to add desired amp hours, use a minimum of 2 ga uge leads to connect these and the inverters, and keep the leads as short a s possible. Disconnect the 6-3 from the service box supplying your power. Wire each hot wire to the appropriate 30 amp circuit on each inverter (one inverter carries red, one carries black) Then wire the neutral wire to bo th, and ground wire to both and drive a grounding rod to terminate the grou nd to. This will drive EVERYTHING in that cabin with exactly what it's sup posed to have, and give you plenty of head room for electric motor starts, peak loads, etc. Best of all, you touch nothing that has already been wire d other than the 4 leads coming from you main. You are essentially making a new main powered by your inverters.

ruly efficient system out there to run a 12V to 110V conversion is hydroele ctric, but that is a whole nother topic.

e sun is shining too) Long explanation short, you will ALWAYS consume fast er than you can produce (except for hydroelectric) 2ind solar hybrids are better, but not much. Now if you are off grid, how do you supplement this pitfall? Buy a 90amp deck mount converter, and use a generator too.

hing I just said to get. The beauty of it is, if my batteries begin to get low, I flick a switch and they charge off of my power pole. Also keep in mind this system is not for beginners to build, and it costs about $6000. And no, you won't be reimbursed for it because it isn't an authorized power generation system.

That response is inappropriate after he took the time to write a response d etailed enough for an ape to understand. I would add some big automotive fu ses directly on the composite battery outputs to the inverter though- to pr otect the batteries.