new models of personal air purifiers

As an asthmatic, I have had much cause to investigate the claims for these so called "air purifiers". If you want to kill yourself, that's your business but if anyone insisted on operating one anywhere near me, I'd sue _and_ call the cops. Go to

Ted

of

me,

"Scarry", eh? I knew it damaged tissues in high concentrations, but i didn't think it would leave scar tissue! ;-)

Well, if it destroys rubber .... !

Thanks for writing this Ted, my observations are not nearly as effective as your comments because you have a health problem that is exasebbated by ozone. I hope everyone warns their friends. Negative Ions means the same thing as ozone, so I'm not sure why these devices are so popular. But, someone has to buy them, or else they wouldn't be manufactured and sold.

I don't have the URL at this moment, but there is similar information about ozone on the fda.gov website.

Any amount of ozone is too much, although a small trace amount appears in the air as a result of static from lightening and other natural events.

For anyone interested in Indoor Air Quality, there is a fine mailing list that is semi-moderated (to keep spam out) at yahoo.com. It is frequented by government specialists, IAQ clean up and consultants and by average folks who suspect they have a problem or by those who want to make sure they don't have a problem. Look at:

We have a very large and very expensive air filter that uses high voltage to strip dust particles from the air. It's a top rated product, but we won't use it.

Regards,

It's from "The Stars My Destination", by Alfred Bester (and yes, I asked, and the Psy-cop in B5 played by the guy who played "Checkhov" in ST:TOS (Walter Koenig?) was named in his honor), when Gully Foyle visits "The Scientific People."

Quant Suff! ;-) Rich

Begging your pardon, but this is simply not true. A negative ion is _any_ atom with an extra electron attached to it (or two, or however many you can get to stick.) Ozone is a specific compound, chemical formula O3. Simply a molecule comprising three oxygen atoms.

Mind you, ozone is a _by-product_ whenever there is ion generation going on, but the idea that "negative ions" and "ozone" are the same is terribly, deeply, mistaken. My intent here is not to hurt your feelings, but I guess I'd have to say I'm on a crusade to prevent this kind of misinformation from being promulgated as if it were fact.

Because they work? They make their customers feel better?

That's just silly. Or maybe just standard, run-of-the-mill hysteria.

And makes the outdoors smell springtime fresh! :-)

Gee, they told me that banning cigarettes and making antismokerism the national religion was supposed to solve all indoor air quality problems for all time! Imagine your surprise.

I will, however, stand up and defend your right to live your life as you see fit.

Cheers! Rich [remainder of thread follows]

"Because they work? They make their customers feel better? "

Ever heard of the Placebo effect.

They work because they remove dust from the air, and make it stick to any nearby furniture. This accounts for the reports of improvements in 'hay fever' - pollen in also removed.

For pure Placebo effect - try magnetic bracelets that claim that they 'ionize'.

in

I would, but they're too expensive - sixty bucks. And the gold plated ones are even more expensive, a hundred or more.

No, I don't believe they work, but they make a good conversation piece. Especially when you try to explain how it must be worn, so that the magic whatever won't stop. ;-P

No, negative ions are *not* the same as ozone, you need a significantly higher voltage corona to produce ozone.

Well whatever, but those don't produce ozone or negative ions. Hey you're welcome to give it to me, I've been in the market for one of those actually.

You should check out the episode of Penn & Teller Bullshit on alternative medicine, absolutely hilarious segment on magnetic therapy.

Yes, you are correct, literally.

But, where you find negative ions, you will find ozone in the same air. And, any voltage that is instrumental in producing negative ions will also produce ozone.

Literally, they are not the same, you are absolutely correct. But, with respect to the air purifiers...a negative ion generator must also produce ozone.

plated

piece.

alternative

They're now using magnetic therapy to treat depression with a coil placed on the head over a certain part of the brain. Then a high current is discharged thru the coil. Skip down to the bottom of this URL to read about TMS.

Note that his statement is, "Negative Ions means the same thing as ozone,..." not "are the same thing". Unless you use a mechanism to generate negative ions that does not produce ozone (not likely in a home air cleaner) they do "mean the same thing" in practical terms.

So do jelly donuts to diabetics but ... They certainly don't work.

Note that the URL you supplied refers mainly to CFCs and the Ozone layer however one of the first citations states: " (a) Ozone is a toxic gas with no known useful medical application in specific, adjunctive, or preventive therapy. In order for ozone to be effective as a germicide, it must be present in a concentration far greater than that which can be safely tolerated by man and animals. "

Your name has a familiar ring. Where/are you involved in the sale or manufacture of ionic "air cleaners"?

Ted

Where they loose their charge fairly soon and get back into the air. Great!!

Ted

Sheesh! Don't you folks READ the posts? "Mean the same thing" and "are the same thing" are not the same statement. Gasoline, air and an ignition source is not the same thing as fire but the results are the same.

It _is_ possible to generate negative (or, for that matter, positive) ions without producing O3 just not with an electrical discharge in air. Ever heard of an ion engine?

Ted

You might look into electrostatic furnace filters but not the ones you supply power to. We have permanent filters that work by the airflow over the grid developing a small static charge. Enough to trap particulates but not enough to generate ozone or produce a flow of ions. They are cleaned with a little detergent and water every couple of months and last indefinitely.

Ted

That appears to be reasonable. Using fridge magnets to cure diseases is like trying to behead someone with a feather.