Any decent free electrical cad programs out there ???

Well I am currently developing an EDA app at this moment which you are welcome to use. If all you need is schematic capture at this moment, then it has all the capabilities you need. PCB Layout I am still working on.

All the various symbols, contacts etc. that you need you can easily define yourself in the symbol editor. Just build your own library of symbols.

As I haven't needed it yet I have not yet implemented the ability to actually print a schematic but this would be reasonably easy for me to implement and if you wanna use it, I would prioritize it and get that implemented asap. I figure that is something that would be rather important for you =)

Note however that this app is in development so there will prolly be the occasional bug and rough edge. I try to do all the testing I can as best as possible but me being the programmer I am the worst person to do any testing!! So I am looking for as many people as possible to work with this and help me test it.

If you are interested, make a post here or send me an e-mail at kermosATsomrekDOTcom

Screenshots:

Requirements:

Win2000 or XP DirectX9.0c with latest MDX Update (easily available from microsoft). .Net Framework 2.0 DirectX9 Compatible video card

-- Stephan

2003 Yamaha R6

kimi no koto omoidasu hi nante nai no wa kimi no koto wasureta toki ga nai kara

Terry Pinnell's CAD list is a good place to start:

Robert

To design:

And to make PCB -> gerber:

And then there's KiCad:

Platform unix or win32.

It sounds like you're squawking about having to build your own symbol library. Get over it. Everybody who uses a CAD has to do it. (Some folks will share.)

Yep! I trusted Orcad's symbol library once... exactly once! The white wires were manifold.

They did silly things like assume the pin numbering was the same between the

7805, 78M05, 78L05, LM340-T5, ... Diodes with the anode sometimes #1, and the cathode sometimes #1. LEDs with yet another numbering...

-Chuck Harris

So hey let me ask ya. Is it even worth my effort to try to include a standard set of symbol libraries?

I don't really have the resources to manually create my own libraries for every existing component out there so I would need to create my own libraries based on other existing ones.

PCBCAD17 off ebay is a great little program and only a few pounds.

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote:

Wrighty TOP-POSTED:

See. Joining an EXISTING thread instead of starting your own SPAM thread is just as easy.

Ignoring the contents of Subject line and advertising your payware, however, puts you right back in the Stupid category. . . Your TOP-POSTING flags you as clueless as well. http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:SXIajvWUVHAJ:groups.google.com/support/bin/answer.py=answer=12348+Tempting-though-it-is-*-*-*-*-*-*+remove-*-*-*-irrelevant+STOP+zz-zz+qq+BOTTOM

Imagine who your target audience will be. Imagine that guy wanting to test-drive your ECAD. At a miniumum, include enough so that the experience will not turn him off immediately.

Lack of good libraries (as the OP notes) could be a big turn-off for some folks. (You expect to have to DIY on exotic stuff--however...)

Worth noting: EAGLE puts up Share-Your-Stuff pages for its users. . . Have you investigated gEDA and KiCAD? Is there something in their philosophies that makes you want to start from zero instead of contributing to a project with momentum?

Likewise, gEDA has

where people can publish their personal libraries.

The old original PSpice Schematics allows sending your schematic file in a way that includes all the symbols you used (*.ma).

...Jim Thompson

-- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | |

| 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Something like that I could easily set up and would be happy to support. Matter of fact, I would be happy to even support other packages libraries as long as I can get the appropriate documentation of their file formats to be able to at the very least import them.

-- Stephan

2003 Yamaha R6

kimi no koto omoidasu hi nante nai no wa kimi no koto wasureta toki ga nai kara

gEDA and PCB use open and fully-documented library formats, so no problem there.

Heck, you could just use the same formats and save yourself some effort.

One question for ya, how much is "enough"? =)

I agree with you, and that is one area I have a problem in. I can handle writing the software, my current goal is a release towards the end of the year. No problems there at all. Single-handedly writing applications of this scale is something I do on a regular basis...this is just the first time I am doing it for my own product.

The symbol libraries and pattern libraries do worry me though. I want to provide good and accurate libraries but for me to create them by hand is unfeasible. I have time, but I don't have that much time. I mean something basic with some basic patterns and components, sure no problem. But there is no way I could cover even all the standard components, exotics included, of all the standard manufacturers.

So that essentially leaves me with the following options:

- Import options for libraries from other packages, that I plan to do anyway. The more the merrier...I currently do support P-CAD ASCII and definitely have interest in supporting more, documentation is hard to find though.

- Using existing libraries from say another package, build my own libraries in my format based on their data. At this point in time though, I need to trust that their contents are valid and accurate. I also don't know any potential legal implications in doing something like that but on the other hand, the symbol definition for a given chip is the same no matter whose library it is, same for the pattern. So all the data being copied really isn't anything proprietary. And at this point in time, that is the most feasible option to me.

- Create a global portal available to all users that initially just contains a very basic library and give the users the ability to expand it and/or add additional libraries. Anything added to this portal is instantly available to all other users. So over time the libraries will grow in content and accuracy. Users would still of course still have the ability to have their own private libraries locally.

This however would not truly be feasible until I have enough cash-flow to support the required server infrastructure for something like that so it is more something to consider for future expansion rather than the beginning.

See above =)

Nothing to do with their philosophies, I just simply don't work for free. I have a car payment, rent to pay, etc. And I would much rather make my living off my own product than being employed at some random company working my butt off for some salary while the company gets rich off my work. =) For those reasons I have no interest in contributing to open source projects.

-- Stephan

2003 Yamaha R6

kimi no koto omoidasu hi nante nai no wa kimi no koto wasureta toki ga nai kara

I figured they would so I will definitely be looking into those and adding support for that.

Well not really, one is due to potential legal implications. Secondly, using someone elses format limits me to what their format is capable of storing. If I ever implement features that require me to store data their format cannot handle, I have a problem. Sure I can extend the format but at this point in time, it is no longer the same and no longer compatible with the other app.

Plus my format is already defined anyway and is working very nicely! The format is also designed in such a way that it is usable for symbols, schematics, patterns, and pcb's (just the stored data elements change accordingly) to avoid needing multiple file formats for the various different files.

-- Stephan

2003 Yamaha R6

kimi no koto omoidasu hi nante nai no wa kimi no koto wasureta toki ga nai kara

err..I meant to say exotics excluded =)

-- Stephan

2003 Yamaha R6

kimi no koto omoidasu hi nante nai no wa kimi no koto wasureta toki ga nai kara

So we're wasting our time on another SPAMMER who ignored the OP's Subject line. .

I did not ignore the OP's subject line. I offered him to use what I am developing for free, which agrees with his subject line does it not?

Nor am I offering anything for sale or am selling anything. Yes the product will be commercial at one point in time, but at this point in time I am discussing the development of said product and am trying to get feedback on features and get suggestions from people as to things they would like to see, not see, etc. This being a EDA CAD newsgroup, and as such that I am discussing the development of an EDA CAD program, I am in-line with this newsgroup. Wether or not it will ultimately be free or not is irrelevant as long as I am not trying to sell it on here. It is no different than me as a CAD user going to a forum and discussing a problem I am having with a project I am working on in said CAD software. Chances are in said example that said project isn't free or open source either...

Got a question for you though, why is it that you expect me to do my work for free? Seriously, why?

I assume you do schematics and layout and the like. So tell me, do you design all your boards for free and distribute the source files along with every product you ship out? If you don't, why do you expect me to? How is my job any different than yours?

-- Stephan

2003 Yamaha R6

kimi no koto omoidasu hi nante nai no wa kimi no koto wasureta toki ga nai kara

The fundamental difference is you are developing a product for sale, and asking all of us "potential customers" to do your testing and quality control for free. After we have invested our time and great effort in helping you develop your product, you plan to then do us the great favor of letting us pay for a seat.

Yeah...Right!

If you want to keep your product closed, that is fine. Keep it closed, but pay for your own development... pay for the advice you seek.

It is no different than me as a CAD user going to a

The question is turned right back on you fella: Why do you expect us to be test pilots for your software for free? 80% of any software project is spent testing and fixing bugs.

With my schematics and layout, my customer has come to me and contracted for me to do the design and layout. When I finish the work, it belongs to my customer, so I turn over all of the materials to my customer. In return, my customer gives me little green pieces of paper.

-Chuck Harris