Re: Does the BF falcon have LED tail-lights??

**Trouble is, those LED arrays only deliver a fraction of the light delivered by a halogen. The arrays are approximately similar efficiency to a halogen, but consume a lot less power. Therefore, they deliver a lot less light. You need to spend the big Bucks on Crees, Luxeons and others to really get some decent light output. And they are expensive. Very expensive. It will not always be so.
**All my dash lighting is LED. I used Luxeons. Too expensive for the mass market and I had to alter the dash lighting level control to suit LEDs (it needs to be a current control, rather than a Voltage control) too. The payoff for me is that I don't need to worry about replacing lamps anymore.

Trevor Wilson

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Trevor Wilson
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**Not necessarily. Only when you look at the premium products, like Cree or Luxeon.

LED's have always been very highly efficient light emitters,

**Absolute and complete bollocks. I still have a handful of the first LEDs easily available on the Australian market. I don't have the figures, but I guess they are rated at around 0.1 millicandela. A typical, cheap, high output LED is rated for about 10,000 mCd. Even at 10,000mCd, those LEDs are way behind Cree and Luxeons. Figure on it being around 1% efficient. IOW: 1% of electrical energy is converted to light. The rest is converted to heat.
**Wrong. Incandescents are VASTLY less efficient than 50%. Maybe 0.1% - 1% efficient.
**Only very high performance LEDs are significantly more efficient than incadescents. Where they score very well, in in green and blue. Blue, particularly, is a colour not easly produced by incandescents.
**Of course. Simple and cheap. Just what the automotive industry lusts after. Do not be misled, however. Your efficiency statements are way off the mark. And it's blindingly simple for you to prove it for yourself. Grab a decent HALOGEN torch. Measure the current flow and the light output. Then try to achieve the same figures with an LED. You'll need a Cree or Luxeon emitter to do so. You'll find that, unless you are using the very latest Cree devices, that the light delivered by the LED is similar to that delivered by the halogen. The rest goes in heat. And for that, you need a decent heat sink on the Cree or the Luxeon. They get hot. Bloody hot.

Trevor Wilson

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Trevor Wilson

**Not even close. If you're comparing a late model Cree device, then figure on a 10 Watt LED equalling a 40 Watt halogen. Pretty impressive, but the LED costs ten times more. Then you have to drive the LED correctly. Then you have to heat sink the puppy.

I suggest you do some more research. You have no idea of the real figures in this area.

Trevor Wilson

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Trevor Wilson

And not all of us have an 'abundance' of Luxeon, Cree, etc. LED devices to experiment with. 8-)

LED's are far superior light emitters than filament lamps because in filament lamps so little of the energy is converted to visible light, and most is turned into infrared (ie. heat) - it's not as little as 1 percent though it is a small proportion.

Even el-cheapo 5 cent LED's (not intended for use in automotive applications) convert almost all the electrical energy passing through them into photons (ie. light), precisely how/where in the very narrow visible part of the EM spectrum depends on the doping, etc. of the material the functional part of the LED is made from (not including LED's designed to emit invisible light such as IR led's).

So yes I know what I'm on about. No I do not have any of these Cree devices, and I'm yet to find a luxeon device that can used a drop-in replacement for any of the standard types of interior automotive lamps commonly used, or for any of the standard types of indicator or brake lights commonly used, without having to add additional electronics to drive them, and creative ways to heatsink them.

So I don't think that the high-powered LED devices are really the answer for replacing the common types of small filament lamps used in most cars, at least not yet until they can be made into proper drop-in replacement devices that don't need special 'interface' hardware, etc.

Craig.

--
Craig\'s Saab C900 Page at      | Craig\'s Classic Saab Workshop - Sydney .au
http://lios.apana.org.au/~c900 | http://www.classicsaab.net and other URL\'s 
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Saab C900 Viggenist

non functioning brake

Unfortunately it will not solve the bigger problem of non functioning turn indicators caused by many drivers inability to use the switch. (or the even worse problem of their inability to use their mirrors, and turn their heads!)

IME most cars are usually far better than those driving them.

MrT.

Reply to
Mr.T

Some people do manage to drive about without crashing into things, however have no interest in fixing broken stuff on their vehicle, so the head spins around in the hope they are getting away with it.

There really is all types of drivers on the roads. I agree inpections are a good thing even if it means for some drivers stuff is broken for only 364 days of the year.

Reply to
the_dawggie

Abso-bloody-lutely.

There's too much focus on "efficiency", when in the big picture, the difference in total energy consumed is tiny in comparison with making and moving a modern car around.

Crikey. My (August) 1990 Golf GTI was first complianced in November 1991.

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/"\\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
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Reply to
Bernd Felsche

100 milliseconds is more typical.

It doesn't pay to just look at times to full brightness either. If you want an incandescent to turn on more quickly, you can also do that; and more cheaply than with an LED array.

Nope. Too expensive.

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/"\\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\\ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | Great minds discuss ideas;
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Bernd Felsche

**And again: BULLSHIT! Repeating the same lie a second time, does not make it the truth. LEDs are not that efficient. White LEDs are approximately the same efficiency as halogens. Cree and other high end LEDs are around 4 X the efficiency of halogens. IOW: Around the same efficiency as discharge lamps.
**Again: BULLSHIT! Good quality white LEDs are approximately the same efficiency as halogens.

precisely how/where in the very narrow visible

**Clearly, you do not.

No I do not have any of these Cree devices,

**It doesn't matter. I'm commenting on your ignorance WRT the efficiency of LEDs vs. incandescents.

Trevor Wilson

Reply to
Trevor Wilson

I use a PWM based circuit to drive my LED arrays on parker mode which ends up in a significant power saving, driving over 60 leds @70ma and the control board draws less than 50ma (as reported by the regulated power supply).

Reply to
What The

So these are in a pre-10/'91 vehicle, or are you running illegal lights?

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Athol
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Athol

I admit, i'm running totally illegal modified tail lights that are brigher, more visible and more reliable than original filament globes... (i.e we're not talking ebay drop in crap here...)

I was fed up with having problems with the globes being pathetically dim and decided a well planned LED array would light the housing evenly, smoothly and provide much better safety and warning to other drivers.

Reply to
What The

Well done.

That's the most elaborate way of saying "I'm a rice boy" I've ever heard :)

-- Regards, Noddy.

Reply to
Noddy

I guess that you're not aware that there are upper and lower limits on light intensity to prevent excessive glare for drivers following you...

Get it wrong and it's as bad as fitting HID projector globes into H4 housings or driving around with your fog lights on.

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Athol
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Athol

Never really thought of myself as a rice boy to be honest. I tend to do all my mods backwards to most other people i know. I started out with handling then added power, i do modifications that are functional rather than simply looking good etc.

I wouldn't think that 'rice boys' would spend months on research, design and testing either modifications, hand building their circuits and a high level of attention to detail.

I'm not saying what i've done should be approved because i spent time on it, but rather that there are some people who take a great deal of care to make sure what they do is worthwhile.

Cheers.

Reply to
What The

Thanks Athol,

Yes i figured that there would be upper limits on such things, although i have no means to test.

I think that when i revise the setup i will lower the "brake" power to around 55ma from 70ma per LED as i have driven behind the car at night and it is brighter than it needs to be, but the leds are behind a diffused lens so their full output is being scattered, i.e its not a direct "beam" a the following motorists.

During the day the brighness level is very good, especially during the danger hours in the AM east bound and PM west bound where it can be hard to see brake lights with sunglare.

HIDs in H4 housings, been there done that, evaluated the before and after and promptly sold the setup, switched to an upgraded brightness H4 type globe with no coating on the glass (Tungsram +60%). I have been working on retrofitting some HID projectors to the factory housings, but have not as yet been able to source the eletronic motors fitted to the cars in japan to be able to add on the fly height adjustment (and compensation for loads) from inside the car (does not and will never comply with ADR of course, but doing it as best as i can).

I get as frustrated as most motorists who get the hell glared out of them by some "ricer" with an 8000K HID kit that thinks they're cool.

Cheers.

Reply to
What The

Speaking of which...... How do the ricers get away with running blue headlights when the relevant ADR states that the colour should be on the yellow side of white? (and how do manufacturers get approval for their xenon headlights?)

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Kwyj.
Reply to
Kwyjibo

The colour range goes just far enough towards blue for the HIDs to be just inside range.

There is no technical reason for them to be blue. It's just that they wanted them to be identifably different to incandescent lights.

IIRC, Daniel Stern (the lighting expert whose website the above info came from a long time ago) intended to push for the colour limits to be tightened to eliminate the current blue crap on the next revision of the UN-ECE regs...

Most of the tinted H1/H3/H4/whatever globes are worse than useless and few are ADR compliant.

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Athol
   Linux Registered User # 254000
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Athol

They don't.

I've got a box full of the things here I bought at an auction with a bunch of other stuff, and they all have "Intended for off-road use only" stamped on the packets.

-- Regards, Noddy.

Reply to
Noddy

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