Beogram 4000 TT schematic.

**I presume you've tried B&O themselves? You will need to supply the Type
Number, as well as model number. B&O regularly issue variants on their model
numbers.

Trevor Wilson wrote:



I eventually got an email off to someone at B&O in their service section,
but no reply yet.

Maybe I have to buy the service manual.
I had hoped someone migh have had experience with these
complicated POS TTs.

**I'll ask the question again: What is the Type Number?

Calling it a POS is likely to elicit help, NOT.
IMO they were one of the best *fully automatic* turntables around. Not only
do they look good, but I could trust other people to use it, while keeping
the real turntable for my personal use :-)

BTW, if you think the circuit is "complicated", that says more about your
electronics knowledge.

MrT.

"Mr.T" wrote:



After several attempts to get this POS working, and after it merrily
developed more and more faults in the weeks after, the repair
which I am supposed to guranteee for 3 mths has turned into
an unprofitable disaster.

I know crap when I see it, and every bit of B&O design wizardry
is entirely wasted on folks like me..





The sound is nothing great.
My old Thorens TD160 with a Denon MC is simpler and better sounding.





Who gives a shit how marvellous it looks?

The 4000 is like blonde who can't cook or root and costs
a lot to run.



Its VERY complicated compared to my better sounding Thorens!

Your accusation shows the world you are a poor judge of humans and their
capabilities.

Good design always includes the "easy to fix factor"
B&O don't. Their 8000 series receivers are nightmares to work on.
Its all just expensive garbage afaiac.

In this case I will do my best to fix the critter for the 3rd time,
but its problems are ruining the reputation of both B&O and myself, as far
as the customer is concerned.

Patrick Turner.

On Wed, 11 May 2005 09:07:33 GMT, Patrick Turner




I see you're a man of the 21st Century. :-)

paul packer wrote:



I am proud to be what a man could be for any century,
I will not suffer fools gladly, or bludgers, or time wasters, or
whingers,
or poor audio designs that are difficult to service or diagnose.

Patrick Turner.

That's an admission of your ability only.



We can agree on that I guess.



And my Thorens TD125II is even better, but its not fully automatic.



Not you obviously, but some people don't live in dives.


your

Mine too, but irrelevant.



You did post the problems you have fixing something quite simple.



Never seen an 8000 series reciever. Can't see the relevance to you TT
problem.



Not true, if they had of taken it to an authorised B&O repair centre, it
would probably have been fixed first time around.
Since you have no knowledge of, or experience with the model, then they must
expect you are simply playing around and learning as you go.

MrT.

"Mr.T" wrote:



My very highly trained and experienced employee found it difficult
to diagnose faults and effect a repair.

There is no admission of my abilities.

But there is a demonstration of your stupidity in being so rash.




Something's automaticness doesn't make it a superior audio product.
But sure, TD125II may indeed be a nice TT; I have never owned one.
I quite like the TD124.....



There you go again, being a pueurile idiot in making a stupid
assumption and conclusion.



But the 4000 isn't simple.
When you remove the covers acres of electronics boards greet the eye.
There is a pile of opto electronics, sensitive and easily stuffable
electro-mechanics.




I'm illustrating the general idea that B&O produces gear that is difficult to
service
if anything goes wrong, and it does.



I should NEVER have to take any bit of 30+ yr old junk to an authorized repair
place where
they usually charge an arm and a leg for a repair.
Any TT should be repairable by the average tech without much bother.
There are piles of horror stories about gear dissapearing for months at
authorized places, coming back with the faults still present, not all fixed, and
then there was no repair guy in the ACT
and so the gear would have had to have been sent some place with great risk of
further damage
and more expense.




I am becoming an expert about B&O, and not enjoying it.

I could say the same about many other high end brands.

The B&O website fails to provide any info on who is there guy near me.
David Jones sells the stuff as well as others in Sydney, and I'd have to contact
them to find out
who the repair guy is. He may not be a specialist who only does B&O.

But we will get this mess of a thing working for longer than 3 record plays
and hopefully it will run ok for years.
Me and my guy have repaired maybe hundreds of items, and we get very very few
comebacks.

Posting about it here tested the waters to see if there was anyone with
experience
of servicing the model, but it appears I only drew nittpickers.


Patrick Turner.

Of course, with no experience and not even a circuit diagram.



Nothing rash about my assesment of YOUR statements.



Which I already stated!!!!

However it DOES make it more fool proof for women and children.
The B&O was the only turntable I could trust them with, that I could also
trust my records with.
The B&O MMC20CL I used was quite a good cartridge IMO, and did minimal
damage to records.
(Unlike the Decca you mention!)



No assumption, YOU stated you don't give a shit, and I'm sure I don't care.



Gee, you must have *real* problems with modern gear!
No wonder you stick to valves.


repair

No, most 30 year old junk is thrown away. The fact that it's worth fixing
indicates it's not junk.



I'll sell you an old JH then if you like :-)
Not sure if you can still get belts for them though? Does that count as
bother?


fixed, and
risk of

Possibly, but that sounds exactly like what is happening with your repair
too.



Since you haven't even told us what is wrong, just what help did you expect?
Your not likely to get too much help by abusing people IMO.

MrT.

Ask anyone who has tried to get something repaired in recent times and you
can sit back and let the horror stories roll and that includes so called
authorised repairers.
I for one would rather take my out of warranty equipment to someone genuine
as Patric appears to be than to one of those 'authorised' places.
Gordon

Agreed. The trick is to find someone honest and reliable. Patrick
obviously is, but we only know that through his postings here. How
does one gauge the ethical standards of one's local repairer without
first risking a horrid, expensive experience.

genuine

I quite agree with you, but only if the said repairer has some idea what he
is doing. In this case Patrick has taken on a repair where he has no
knowledge of the product, and apparently has no circuit. His attempts to fix
it may be well meaning, but he is just as likely to damage something.
(for example, cartridges are very expensive, and can be damaged easily if
the arm lift solenoid doesn't operate properly.)

MrT.

Yes I know what you are getting at however it was my experience ,over the
20yrs or so I was in the hi-fi industry, that people like Patric with all
their general experience and a respect for other peoples equipment  tend to
take more care with other peoples property than the big repair
organisations.
Gordon

to

It's my experience that no generalisations can be drawn about repairers big
or small, cheap or expensive.
Most will try to cover up their mistakes IME, in any industry. Many will
even charge you for parts they have damaged by their incompetence.
Unless you know someone is indeed both capable and ethical, it's pretty much
pot luck.

From his posts, Patrick seems likely to be better than most as far as ethics
go.

MrT.

Ye ,sounds fair enough to me but what is your experience in this area?
Gordon

keyboard and composed:




If the unit is indeed 33 years old, I wonder how many of the service
techs working in the industry today would be familiar with it, or with
turntables of any kind. I suspect most of the experienced techs would
either be retired, or running their own businesses. Furthermore, I
would expect that the only advantage in taking the TT to an authorised
service centre would be that they would have unfettered access to
schematics and spares, if they still exist.


- Franc Zabkar

Franc Zabkar wrote:



I emailed B&O at the contact for service.
B&O list the sales people in Oz, not the name of the service ppl.

Their info was useless.

The unit has a parallel tracking arm.

A motor drives the arm across the record using a lighsource and opto sensors to
work a diff amp to work the motor which winds the arm carriage along
by turning a threaded rod througha  nylon nut.

All the functions of arm movement are via press buttons on the front.

But the arm chatters angrily when it stops after some movement as a result
of pressing start or changing tracks.
A solenoid is used to raise and lower the arm which is fitted with a damper to
slow movement.
But my tech couldn't figure it out fully, although he did manage to repair the
PSU
which failed after I tested it when the client retunred the unit when the
functions
made the arm buzz around.
I spent 3 hours, and found a tiny peice of broken plastic and where it had come
from
and sure the plastic part was not secure so I made a metal reinforcing bracket
to bring the mechanism back to stiff as it had once left the factory.
The ability of the carriage mechanism to be a buzzer rather than TT carriage got
worse,
and any amount of RC damping a fiddling with switch stops didn't improve it.

So now I have to tell my fed up and impatient client I will be forced to purchase
a
complete manual & schematic, and thus be able to check out what could be wrong.

I fully expect to see no explanation why an arm would buzz violently
when the carriage stops to allow the arm to lower onto a record.

I won't mind if he doesn't want to proceed since the cost of
spending days on one bit of gear would be expensive, even at my low hourly rates.

I repaired a Sanyo 4 in 1 stereo with a tracker arm, and it was SO much
simpler, and worked just as well, same functions....

Patrick Turner.

Agreed, except that reputable companies keep records.
Even new staff can access service manuals and lists of known problems, or
special service precautions.



Agreed, both of which Patrick is lacking.

MrT.