Orcad is a total piece of dog crap!

But the reverse annotation is the exception and only useful for a small subset of operations. If you use this very much, it would be a real PITA to keep things in sync no matter what method you use.

t

I don't see how any of this is relevant, but I likely don't see the picture you are trying to draw. My point is that if I am doing controlled work and want to keep my two data bases in sync, it is better if it is done as I need it rather than having to stop what I am doing and run some tasks that forward or reverse annotate. This breaks the train of thought too much.

As to the visuals, the point is you have to fix the schematic no matter *how* you annotate, so what's ugly got to do with it? It's going to be ugly until you make it better either way.

?

You seem to be saying what I am saying. If I do the schematic and someone else is doing the layout, then we have to coordinate very carefully to add/delete parts correctly. How does this enter into the discussion? Actually, if he has the schematic open and added parts appear on a new page, then he can send me the new schematic and I can see what he had done. But with a two person task, it is going to be a batch mode operation no matter what.

If I am doing a "design-stub", I am not added parts to my layout without adding them first to my schematic. It is just too much of a PITA to keep it all straight. So I add them to the schematic and they show up in the layout for me to place. With a common data base, I don't have to add them to the layout and then back-annotate them onto the schematic in some clumsy way. I do it the right way to start with!

Uh, if you don't want "live" changes, then you don't have to make the changes "live". Do you think using the schematic is going to start up the layout program and start ripping up traces???

If you move a part between pages (which I seldom do anyway) why do you need to resync other than to verify that nothing has changed?

So? That was my original point, the use of a *common* format that multiple tools can use. I don't expect Orcad to ever open up their data base. But open source is becoming the new lay of the land. This is just the sort of thing that will make open source more appealing than proprietary tools.

Yes, and until the automobile was mass produced, most people used horses. What's your point???

Rick

Reply to
rickman
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There is no 'right way'. Operators should be free to choose, and the design-tools job is to assisty them.

I may have extrapolated your push for 'live' too much. If you did not mean both packages working at the same time, then you really have the same as what we have now ?.

Separate SCh and PCB areas, and the operator decides when to re-sync. (even if it is in the same file, the SCH chunk is asleep until PCB starts, and then you have the same resync problems....)

There are tools now that can support what you describe.

-jg

Reply to
Jim Granville

Nonsense. When someone is writing a tool, they design the tool to work the way that makes sense. If you want to use the tool in a difficult way, then you take responsibility for the results. But that doesn't mean that the tool is bad. Designing a PWB from the layout back to schematic can be done, but it is the hard way and shouldn't be done unless there are some very unusual circumstances. Do you expect the tool to suit ***everyone*** in every mode of operation???

Look, either we are not communicating at all, or you are just being very argumentative. "Live" updating can be used or not used. You want flexibility, well I am sure that this can be provided easily. If you are using schematic without layout running, you won't get "live" updates. Likewise, if you run layout without schematic running, you won't get "live" updates. If you run both at the same time, you will get "live" updates. Isn't that simple?

You can use it any way you want. What is your point??? Why don't we just agree to disagree???

Rick

Reply to
rickman

Design convergence takes many forms, and the tools should not constrain

- their task is to help. The PCB tools I have here, offer a number of choices of Design Merge. They can back eco, and that works (but could, of course, work better ), they can forward eco, and they can ASCII merge, where a 'safe superset' approach is used.

We use all three pathways, depending on the Project.

I would be annoyed at a tool/vendor 'that thought it knew best', and removed those choices.

One example where we 'safe superset' is a complex 6 PCB Stackup, with connectors at some boundaries. The SCH is the 'for customer' one, and excludes those connectors, (as well as some build option bridges) and so a precise match is not possible. But we want what IS on the SCH, to confirm.

Mostly, we use common flow of SCH to PCB.

Sometimes, we have a PCB design, done without a SCH. I have CPLD designs here, where the 'SCH' is a script that extracts the PLD pinouts from the CPLD design files.

Yes, but now see that you have added a requirement for batch handling, because as soon as you cease to be live, you need a pathway to 'resync later' - aka batch.

-jg

Reply to
Jim Granville

Ok, it is clear that you are never going to "get it". So I'll stop bothering you now.

Rick

Reply to
rickman

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