WiFi Connection Quality

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Are you running Linux on your WRT54G? It signifigantly improves performance of those units.

You should runn DD-WRT on it. It is downloadable and free.

irectly to the WISP modem and get a good connection. Connecting to the rou ter by cable seems to get a good connection. By "good" I mean the ping tim es to 8.8.8.8 are consistently in the 20's or 30's of ms. When on the wifi connection lately the ping times are up to 500 ms and beyond 20 to 30% of the tests.

ith much around. The nearest neighbor is next door ~100 feet but no one is there (weekend home) and they don't have a router. They use their cell ph ones for Internet access. The next closest neighbor is 300 to 400 feet awa y and has a typical router like I do. Everyone else is over 500 feet away and I can only see their wifi show up sporadically at levels of 1 or 2 bars if any.

s only 8 feet away so the signal strength is full scale. The laptop is a D ell Precision M6800 which seems to work ok at other locations.

tes I get a noticeable lag compared to the direct connection.

Are you sure there is no interference? Maybe a wireless security camera or other non-WiFi device in the same band? Heavy Bluetooth activity?

Over the years I have seen several WiFi devices start to misbehave, but never identified the exact cause. Guesses include drift in crystal oscillator frequencies and wear-out of RF power transistors. Sometimes failing power supplies cause odd problems.

Have you tried switching to a different channel?

John

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directly to the WISP modem and get a good connection. Connecting to the r outer by cable seems to get a good connection. By "good" I mean the ping t imes to 8.8.8.8 are consistently in the 20's or 30's of ms. When on the wi fi connection lately the ping times are up to 500 ms and beyond 20 to 30% o f the tests.

with much around. The nearest neighbor is next door ~100 feet but no one is there (weekend home) and they don't have a router. They use their cell phones for Internet access. The next closest neighbor is 300 to 400 feet a way and has a typical router like I do. Everyone else is over 500 feet awa y and I can only see their wifi show up sporadically at levels of 1 or 2 ba rs if any.

is only 8 feet away so the signal strength is full scale. The laptop is a Dell Precision M6800 which seems to work ok at other locations.

sites I get a noticeable lag compared to the direct connection.

Yes, switching between ch 11 and ch 1 had no effect.

Unlikely to be Bluetooth interference. There is nothing in the house on Bl uetooth other than my cell which is not currently connected to a bluetooth device (as usual) and the laptop which is also not connected to any bluetoo th devices.

As I've indicated in my original post there are no homes nearer to mine tha t could potentially interfere. The one next door is unoccupied with no Int ernet connection. The other nearest one is 300 to 400 feet away, so highly unlikely to be interfering.

Given the proximity of the access point and the laptop it is hard to imagin e any interference.

Rick C.

That would also be my best guess(tm). Long ping times mean that there is packet loss and retransmissions. We've been here before.

Got a spectrum analyzer that will see non-Wi-Fi RF sources? It's difficult to see anything but it's better than guessing. There are some fairly cheap USB spectrum analyzers available. Ask around and see if anyone is willing to do a site survey. Your ISP would be a good start.

Old list of possible sources of Wi-Fi interference: Some more that I should probably add"

- 2.4GHz radio control

- Wireless security camera and video

- Media player (Roku, Apple, WD, etc).

- Hi-fi and TV internet backhaul via wi-fi.

- Illegal power amplifiers

The very first think I would do is replace your WRT54GL with something different and hopefully better and see if it makes a difference.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

onsdag den 11. juli 2018 kl. 21.11.36 UTC+2 skrev snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com:

irectly to the WISP modem and get a good connection. Connecting to the rou ter by cable seems to get a good connection. By "good" I mean the ping tim es to 8.8.8.8 are consistently in the 20's or 30's of ms. When on the wifi connection lately the ping times are up to 500 ms and beyond 20 to 30% of the tests.

ith much around. The nearest neighbor is next door ~100 feet but no one is there (weekend home) and they don't have a router. They use their cell ph ones for Internet access. The next closest neighbor is 300 to 400 feet awa y and has a typical router like I do. Everyone else is over 500 feet away and I can only see their wifi show up sporadically at levels of 1 or 2 bars if any.

s only 8 feet away so the signal strength is full scale. The laptop is a D ell Precision M6800 which seems to work ok at other locations.

tes I get a noticeable lag compared to the direct connection.

maybe the WRT54GL supply is getting old a noisy? (dried out caps etc.)

buy a new wifi, return it if it doesn't help

:

directly to the WISP modem and get a good connection. Connecting to the r outer by cable seems to get a good connection. By "good" I mean the ping t imes to 8.8.8.8 are consistently in the 20's or 30's of ms. When on the wi fi connection lately the ping times are up to 500 ms and beyond 20 to 30% o f the tests.

with much around. The nearest neighbor is next door ~100 feet but no one is there (weekend home) and they don't have a router. They use their cell phones for Internet access. The next closest neighbor is 300 to 400 feet a way and has a typical router like I do. Everyone else is over 500 feet awa y and I can only see their wifi show up sporadically at levels of 1 or 2 ba rs if any.

is only 8 feet away so the signal strength is full scale. The laptop is a Dell Precision M6800 which seems to work ok at other locations.

sites I get a noticeable lag compared to the direct connection.

OK, if you and Jeff both say I should try another router, I guess I should. Any suggestions as to model?

I bought the WRT54GL not too long ago as a refurb because it had a lot of g ood reviews. I believe this unit is long out of production but is popular with the hackers. Once I get a new unit I'll try opening it up to see if I the PSU is working ok.

Rick C.

torsdag den 12. juli 2018 kl. 01.16.47 UTC+2 skrev snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com:

om:

ct directly to the WISP modem and get a good connection. Connecting to the router by cable seems to get a good connection. By "good" I mean the ping times to 8.8.8.8 are consistently in the 20's or 30's of ms. When on the wifi connection lately the ping times are up to 500 ms and beyond 20 to 30% of the tests.

on with much around. The nearest neighbor is next door ~100 feet but no on e is there (weekend home) and they don't have a router. They use their cel l phones for Internet access. The next closest neighbor is 300 to 400 feet away and has a typical router like I do. Everyone else is over 500 feet a way and I can only see their wifi show up sporadically at levels of 1 or 2 bars if any.

PC is only 8 feet away so the signal strength is full scale. The laptop is a Dell Precision M6800 which seems to work ok at other locations.

b sites I get a noticeable lag compared to the direct connection.

d. Any suggestions as to model?

good reviews. I believe this unit is long out of production but is popula r with the hackers. Once I get a new unit I'll try opening it up to see if I the PSU is working ok.

I had one, one day it just stopped working, nothing inside looked bad

is it really worth buying something like that refurb?, it is something like $30-$40 brand new

First thing I'd do is take my router 400 feet next door and see if the wifi connection works there. Lots of stuff interferes with wifi. Bought any new stuff lately? I had interference from an old wireless phone. Switching to DECT 6 fixed it.

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nect directly to the WISP modem and get a good connection. Connecting to t he router by cable seems to get a good connection. By "good" I mean the pi ng times to 8.8.8.8 are consistently in the 20's or 30's of ms. When on th e wifi connection lately the ping times are up to 500 ms and beyond 20 to 3

0% of the tests.

tion with much around. The nearest neighbor is next door ~100 feet but no one is there (weekend home) and they don't have a router. They use their c ell phones for Internet access. The next closest neighbor is 300 to 400 fe et away and has a typical router like I do. Everyone else is over 500 feet away and I can only see their wifi show up sporadically at levels of 1 or

2 bars if any.

y PC is only 8 feet away so the signal strength is full scale. The laptop is a Dell Precision M6800 which seems to work ok at other locations.

web sites I get a noticeable lag compared to the direct connection.

)

uld. Any suggestions as to model?

of good reviews. I believe this unit is long out of production but is popu lar with the hackers. Once I get a new unit I'll try opening it up to see if I the PSU is working ok.

ke $30-$40 brand new

At the time I didn't know if I needed one or not. I was experimenting as I would be doing now. At least at this point I have some evidence to indica te the router is at least the point of the problem even if it is external i nterference. I'm also some 30 miles from anywhere I can get one. It will have to wait until the weekend unless someone recommends a unit that is bet ter than the rest and I mail order it. Jeff had recommended a refurb unit a few months ago and I would have bought one, but the sale ended and I didn 't think I needed one at the time.

Rick C.

2.4 GHz is overcrowded just about everywhere, 802.11n on 5 GHz or 802.11ac performs better in my fairly dense urban area

om:

t directly to the WISP modem and get a good connection. Connecting to the router by cable seems to get a good connection. By "good" I mean the ping times to 8.8.8.8 are consistently in the 20's or 30's of ms. When on the w ifi connection lately the ping times are up to 500 ms and beyond 20 to 30% of the tests.

n with much around. The nearest neighbor is next door ~100 feet but no one is there (weekend home) and they don't have a router. They use their cell phones for Internet access. The next closest neighbor is 300 to 400 feet away and has a typical router like I do. Everyone else is over 500 feet aw ay and I can only see their wifi show up sporadically at levels of 1 or 2 b ars if any.

C is only 8 feet away so the signal strength is full scale. The laptop is a Dell Precision M6800 which seems to work ok at other locations.

sites I get a noticeable lag compared to the direct connection.

That's the point. Picture Ted Kazinski's home. My place is not so much di fferent regarding wifi interference. There is *nothing* inside the house t hat is on the same frequency other than the cellphone with an inactive blue tooth and the laptop with an inactive bluetooth. Even when I've used the b luetooth on both these devices it didn't mess up the wifi.

Rick C.

Which if you had read the previous posts you would know is the exact opposi te of the environment I am in. Sometimes I can see four or five other rout er channels, none of which are above two bars but mostly there are one or t wo at a single bar if any at all. They just fade in and out and are very u nlikely to cause any real issue with interference. If they did cause probl ems here - routers in urban areas would not work at all.

Rick C.

Wellll...that's an, ah, interesting example

The WRT54GL is basically the same router as the original WRT54G - it has enough RAM to run a decent embedded-Linux distribution, and remains popular for that reason.

However, I don't believe that any of the software distributions for it, have good (or any) support for fixes or mitigations for the more recent generations of attacks on the WiFi protocols. As such, it's not a terribly secure solution to depend upon. The fact that you're not in a crowded area may mean you're less likely to be hit by drive-by attackers, but I don't think I'd depend on that.

I'm quite happy with a pair of Asus routers I bought a while ago (RT-N12 I think although I don't have the details here).

Asus RT-AC66U etc. Basically, anything that is on the current (not legacy) supported list for AsusWRT-Merlin firmware: If you have problems untangling this mess, or finding something in a specific price range, send me email.

More to choose from:

The WRT54GL was released in 2005. It's now 13 years old. It was a good router in it's day mostly because it supported alternative firmware (DD-WRT, OpenWRT, etc) which added many useful features and fixed as many bugs as possible.

Additional hints.

1. Don't park the wireless router in front of a window that overlooks an area that might be infested with other wi-fi users. Put a (thick) wall between your router and the possible sources of interference. If you think the interference is going through the outside wall, hang some aluminum foil on the wall to see if shielding will help.
2. Get a wireless router that has external antennas. They do not need to be removable. These antennas have a little more gain and directionality than the PCB mount chip or PIFA antennas.
3. Use an Android smartphone or tablet running WiFi Analyzer: to look for neighbors running wireless security cameras and wireless media players. If you find any, discuss with them the merits of switching to wired (ethernet) cameras and media players. I've found these to be the largest sources of interference on 2.4GHz.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

Please don't write and post a manifesto about this.

There are plenty of non-wifi devices that will cause problems. See the list I posted in this thread. Also: A common problem with old wireless routers, such as your WRT54GL is that they can't decode later 802.11 modulation schemes. The best you can do with the WRT54GL is 802.11g. It won't do 40MHz channels or

802.11n (MIMO). To the WRT54GL receiver, these look like noise or interference.

The sources of interference does not need to be a 2.4GHz device. I've had wireless doorbells belch enough interference to cause disconnects. I've seen LED lights, alarm clocks, and switching power supplies generate enough trash to affect a 2.4GHz receiver. 2.4Ghz cordless phones sometimes cause problems. My microwave oven leaked enough to obliterate the 2.4GHz band with a previous wireless router. When I switched to an Asus RT-N66U and fixed the hinge on the oven, that problem went away. I had a weird interference problem for years that I couldn't identify because it wasn't on the air long enough to direction find. When my neighbor across the street moved out, the interference disappeared. My drone has a 5Ghz analog video transmitter which interferes with 5GHz Wi-Fi when operating. Etc. Anyway, don't assume that the source of interference is a Wi-Fi enabled device.

--
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com 
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com 
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com 
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

My place is not so much different regarding wifi interference.

There is *nothing* inside the house that is on the same frequency

other than the cellphone with an inactive bluetooth and the

laptop with an inactive bluetooth. Even when I've used the

bluetooth on both these devices it didn't mess up the wifi.

That's the biggest issue I've encountered helping people. They ask what they should do. I suggest things that they should do. They RESIST, having concluded that my suggestions aren't relevant based on their previous experience.

They are UNWILLING to consider that their previous experience may not be the same as their CURRENT situation. You can't find things that you don't look for.

Maybe try a different wifi channel.

Take the damned router next door and try it. You could have done that twice in less time than it's taken me to try to help you. Or you could just keep guessing and buying new stuff to try...

There's your problem. This thing belongs at the bottom of a landfill or in a vat of acid having its precious metals leached out.

It is a 802.11b/g device. That means 54 "commercial" Mbps, in practice up to about 25 Mbps when an expert tweaks it to the max and the link is perfect and nobody else interferes. More realistic is 6-10 Mbps. Nice to play with and do some specific things that an off-the-shelf router/accesspoint cannot do, but when you have performance problems it is the first thing to look at.