I was thinking about buying a used Honda Civic Hybrid but the potential cos= t of battery replacement coupled with complaints about it's reliability (es= pecially if outside warranty =3D =A33000) has put me off.=20
Apparently the battery pack is made from 120 D cells in series giving a nom= inal output of 144V. Does this seem like a poor design? I.e. One cell goin= g hi Z screws the whole pack. ? Is there a better way to achieve this give= n current technology which wouldn't be over complicated? =20
I was thinking about buying a used Honda Civic Hybrid but the potential cos= t of battery replacement coupled with complaints about it's reliability (es= pecially if outside warranty =3D =A33000) has put me off.=20
Apparently the battery pack is made from 120 D cells in series giving a nom= inal output of 144V. Does this seem like a poor design? I.e. One cell goin= g hi Z screws the whole pack. ? Is there a better way to achieve this give= n current technology which wouldn't be over complicated? =20
of battery replacement coupled with complaints about it's reliability (especially if outside warranty = £3000) has put me off.
nominal output of 144V. Does this seem like a poor design? I.e. One cell going hi Z screws the whole pack. ? Is there a better way to achieve this given current technology which wouldn't be over complicated?
I've got one, so far so good. But, check out cleanmpg.com, they have a section devoted to Honda Civic Hybrids. These seem to get better gas mileage than the Prius, and also can keep running even if all the hybrid stuff craps out. But, there are a few small rough edges. Some people hate the CVT, and there have been a number of battery replacements under warranty. The warranty has been extended in some locations due to problems. Also, there is now a pretty active market in replacement battery components and services to refurbish them.
Hi Z doesn't seem to be the problem, just loss of capacity and self-discharge.
battery replacement coupled with complaints about it's reliability (especially if outside warranty = £3000) has put me off.
output of 144V. Does this seem like a poor design? I.e. One cell going hi Z screws the whole pack. ? Is there a better way to achieve this given current technology which wouldn't be over complicated?
The Tesla uses 6831 laptop-type lithium ion cells!
cost of battery replacement coupled with complaints about it's reliability = (especially if outside warranty =3D 3000) has put me off.
nominal output of 144V. Does this seem like a poor design? =A0I.e. One cell= going hi Z screws the whole pack. ? =A0Is there a better way to achieve th= is given current technology which wouldn't be over complicated?
Hopefully not the same as Apple! That would be quite a bulge
Some guy did a write up about conditioning the battery pack in the Prius. It's modular, and it's an array of sticks of cells. Pull out a stick (6-8 cells) and check/charge and replace as needed. I don't know how successful that would be since they all should be of equal mAh ratings. But if you search you should find his site.
I don't recall the details, but the general consensus is the Toyota "synergy" is the better hybrid system. It is also found on Nisan vehicles, which they license from Toyota.
For hybrids, they don't fully charge or discharge the batteries. That is how they get long life out of the pack. I think if you could get the data the data on battery replacement, it wouldn't be as insane as say your notebook.
Unless you do a lot of city driving, it is hard to get a hybrid to payoff.
My little Toyota does about 30 MPG, pretty much no matter where I go. Alas, highway driving tends to pull down my average because it has a rather high 5th gear (yes, one of the few manual transmissions still on the road!).
Tim
--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
of battery replacement coupled with complaints about it's reliability (especially if outside warranty = £3000) has put me off.
nominal output of 144V. Does this seem like a poor design? I.e. One cell going hi Z screws the whole pack. ? Is there a better way to achieve this given current technology which wouldn't be over complicated?
If you want low fuel cost then diesel is the way to go.
--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
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Thanks for the replies. My main point was really from an electronics design perspective, does it not appear to be a poor concept to string
120 cells in series (even if there is no alternative given currently available technology)?
120X failure rate of one cell?
I look at the design and think "Nah, I'm not having that". I'd never taken much notice of Hybrid technology, it's hard not to now but I always imagined it to consist of a few larger cells with some associated electronics to manage them.
Instead what we have is one extremely long conventional torch.
If technical ingenuity is the measuring stick, the Toyota electrical transmission is certainly elegant, and allows the car to move with the internal combustion engine stopped. Great for stop and go LA traffic.
Actually, it works well in all traffic. I get over 50 MPG in the summer, and a little worse in the winter, maybe 47+ in combined driving. I've had a Honda Civic hybrid for about 4 years, now.
The Honda semi-Atkinson cycle engine is the most advanced high-efficiency low-emissions engine in a production car. That is the main reason the Honda outdoes the Prius on mileage.
of battery replacement coupled with complaints about it's reliability (especially if outside warranty = £3000) has put me off.
nominal output of 144V. Does this seem like a poor design? I.e. One cell going hi Z screws the whole pack. ? Is there a better way to achieve this given current technology which wouldn't be over complicated?
Only? I'd expect better efficiency. Do you look ahead to see if the next lights are turning, coast to stops, etc., or rocket from red light to red light?
On the highway, constant-torque saves gas. Coasting steep downhill pitches saves more.
Highway driving should _help_. I've always managed to get much higher (20%?) than the EPA fuel economy ratings just by instinctive, commonsense conservation. (They've added lead-footed driving to the rating since then, dropping it, so today it should be possible to beat EPA by even more.) I get about 40mpg in the Acura @ 80mph, cross- country. (actual results)
Yes, It is best to use high efficiency deep cycle discharge cells. Lead acid is the best except its weight to energy density ratio is very large.
There are a bunch of newer energy storage technologies that claim to be the best all around but chances are we will never see these.
Electric vehicle's still have a long way to go before being viable... no matter what Obama wants you to think.
In any case, I'm not sure what the current draw of a Honda Hybrid is but I seriously doubt your 120 cells in series will provide it. You'll need several 120 series strings in parallel to get the current required.
For example, the average D cell has about a 10AHr rating IIRC. 120 in series will still give you only ~ 150Vx10A = 1500W for one Hr. Basically about the same power as running a hair drier. 1500W is about 2HP. So if you need to drive a 50HP motor you'll need 25x the power or 25x the number of 120 cells = 3000.
Those are just very rough estimates. With a hybrid you'll not require as much HP since gas will be used when needed.
If you have money to burn then go for it BUT what is the point of a hybrid in the first place then? Are you a famous hollywood actor or sumt'n?
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