Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China - Page 2

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Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China

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Yes, but that was before the internet bubble collapsed. I think Altium
will be around for many years. They have a big user base and they have
been around for decades (remember Protel?). If they get their act
together they will be back on track. Moving to China is not a bad idea
since most electronics development happens over there and they can't
compete with Eagle.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
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Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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I disagree. Altium could crush eagle in a matter of months if they so
chose.
Unfortunately they long ago abandoned the low end market, and even
lost focus on the core PCB/SCH market, what with the "turning
electronics design upside down" campaign were they made the PCB tool
the optional extra bit.

Dave.

Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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I had to laugh when I first saw that one. According to Altium, all
electronics is digital.

And then they started to belive their own bullshit.


Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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Sorry, Dave, but I really doubt that. The pricing difference between
Eagle and Altium for guys like me who only need a schematic editor is
about an order of magnitude. If Altium would break out the schematic
editor maybe they could match it but given their financial condition
that could cut into bone. Plus Eagle now has the financial backing of
Farnell, not exactly a small enterprise.

What Cadsoft did clearly wrong IMHO was not realizing how important a
hierarchy would have been for their sales success, and their ads were
lacking. So it all remained more geared towards hobbyists. But V6
supposedly brings a hierarchy so that could all change. Then I'll buy
the upgrade.

(sorry, can only see your posts when someone sans google domain answers)


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ROFL! They were kidding, weren't they? But even over 25 years back at
our university a prof said that we won't need to pay too much attention
to transistors and discrete stuff since it'll all be ICs soon. Many
students believed that nonsense. I didn't, and that provides me with
work now :-D

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com /

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Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China

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I think you underestimate the learning curve of Altium. I found it a
very complex product and I wouldn't even consider it unless I was
creating diagrams and PCBs all day. I never worked with Eagle so I
can't compare but a 'low end' product usually is easier / more
straightforward to work with.

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Like I said: if Altium gets their act together they could keep their
customer base. A few years ago a lot of people where moving to Altium.
There must be a reason why they abandoned why Altium choose to get out
of the low end market. IIRC you could get the whole package for the
same price Cadence charged for Orcad capture + PCB (without
autorouter).

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
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Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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I agree, I think they'll end up getting bought sooner than later - I
would put money on it, in case someone is running a wager.

Moving HQ AND Core Development like this is such a wild move it looks
desperate. They are really betting the company. This type of wild
stuff may have worked back in the early 90's with a smaller Protel but
I don't think it will now. Also I read somewhere a post by the
director of communications that just proves people do get dummer as
you go up the power pyramid. Having spent time there, the problem is
that 1). Shanghai is an overcrowded mess 2). Contrary to popular
belief, it is quite an expensive location 3). They still haven't
fallen in love with paying for their software and 4). If China is
really going to be IT, they could have just gone crazy on sales
efforts in the main manufacturing zones which btw are not Shanghai.

As an ex-user of Protel/Altium in the USA, I can say this is no longer
my favourite package having gone over to Eagle some time ago - Its
problem is simple: overcomplicated, overpriced and bloated. I do not
feel like paying for most of the package but have no choice under
present pricing models. I doubt the chinese are going to pay the
prices Altium have been asking for the same reasons. Also I doubt
China is going to be IT - its just getting too expensive (I'm finding
for some materials its cheaper to source again in bulk within the USA)
and they are moving away from manufacturing as the central driver,
which has left me looking again at india, SE Asia and places like
Thailand for cost saving. If they were looking for high paying users
in my opinion its still the USA they should have moved to - but even
this reasoning is flawed. I don't care where altium is based, and I
doubt most others in this business do either. The world has flattened.
I don't care if they are next door or across the globe. I think the
connection between location for most software vendors and sales volume
is remote. It is simply a matter of sales efforts in the target
market.

I hope and would suggest that those laid off move across the street
and stand up a competitive package, based on a lower pricing model for
small to medium businesses. SME's in my opinion are where it will be
at in the coming decade as the larger players continue exiting the
design space. Altium have moved the other way and they don't deserve
your loyalty so I suggest you stick it to them in Sydney.

Jeff

Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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Rikard. It would be informative if you would declare who you work for.
One of Altium's competitors, perhaps?

The people that develop. test and ship Altium Designer actually have
quite a good grasp of the problem space. I'd suggest that we design
many more production boards in-house than any of the competitors you
are alluding to. All of the hardware we sell (NanoBoards, daughter
board, peripheral boards, etc) are fully designed in-house using
Altium Designer.

And I can assure you, Altium and Altium Designer will most certainly
be around this time next year, and for many years to come. Moving the
HQ to China (we will remain an Australian company with a substantial
office in Australia) is a way of assuring this.

For the record, I am product manager with Altium Limited.

Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China

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If that's the case, I suggest that instead of ragging on your potential
customers that you listen to them.  *I* for one would not have *my* data held
hostage.  Not going to happen.  Never!  As much as I'd like to dump OrCAD, I'd
never willingly go to Altium.

Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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...

I don't get the impression that anyone at WestDev (the guys behind Pulsonix)
are actual hardware designers either.

But hey, Pulsonix did finally add scripting support a few months ago now,
after years of it being a very popular user request!

I suspect Joerg is correct that, if Eagle gets around to adding hierarchy
support -- and perhaps changes the user interface to something a little closer
to what most people "expect" these days --, they could end up becoming one of
the last major players in low- to mid-end schematic capture/PCB layout tools.

---Joel


Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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Dave, Commiserations.

How's your Shanghainese?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
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Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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Luckily I don't have to worry about that.

Quote:
"The first stage of the move will involve a reorganization of the
Sydney office operations including
a significant reduction in staff."

Dave.

Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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Ahhh, engineering your own redundancy. Good one.

Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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Bummer.  That happened to me a couple of years ago, when my infrared
antenna project got cancelled, and I got cancelled along with it.  On
the plus side, it turned out to be the best disaster I ever
suffered--consulting suits me, and business has been good.  I haven't
missed any meals, or any mortgage payments either.

With your visibility, I'd expect a good outcome for you too.  It's rough
at first though, for sure.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
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Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 18:15:25 -0700 (PDT), the renowned "David L. Jones"

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Bloody shame, that is. Fancy coming to the part of the world that's
right side up?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
snipped-for-privacy@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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Sigh, that stinks!  I'm sure you can land on your feet Dave.

(There's always the 555 timer competition to fall back on.... :^)

George H.



Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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Sorry to hear that, Dave.

Perhaps on the last day of work, you could put up a review/tour of Altium's
software on your blog... what's the worst they could do, fire you? :-)

(Dave Haynie, an ex-Commodore engineer who designed a lot of the hardware for
the Amiga series of computers, did something like this, shooting a video tour
of the Commodore building on their last day, as well as a post-Commodore party
later that night.  Looks like it's still around --  
http://www.frogpondmedia.com/dbv/index.html -- also available on You Tube
these days.)

---Joel


Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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Not very professional, or from a more self-centred perspective, who'd
hire you after that?

On another sub-thread, I share Joel's reservations about putting
software from China on a crucial PC.

Nemo

Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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Actually, I'd say there's something quite unprofessional about any company
that would object to an employee putting up an objective review of their own
products.

But there are a lot of unprofessional companies out there.

In a good company, your own employees are often the best evangelists you could
hope for.  If it turns out instead your own employees are critical of the
company's products -- and we're talking objective criticisms here -- the worst
possible move would be for a company to try to get the employee to shut up
rather than improving the product and removing the criticism in the first
place: Few people criticize just for the heck of it; most do so out of an
honest desire to see an improvement.

I do realize that, in practice, getting fired is not much fun, and hence those
who work for not-so-great companies are, pragmatically speaking, sometimes
better off remaining mute until they can find a better job.

There's also a sometimes-grey area between "objective criticism" and "ranting
because you don't like your job/boss/etc." -- the later certainly is
unprofessional.  I.e., some employee at, say, Cooltech, Inc. would be doing
the world a favor by putting up a web page entitled something like,
"Compensating for the high-ripple in the Splatterblaster-5000's frequency
response" ... whereas one entitled, "Since we can't fire the clueless engineer
who designed the Splatterblaster-5000's filter, here's how to deal with the
pain that incompetent dolt made for you" wouldn't make me want to hire the
guy. :-)

Tact.  It's all about tact.  Respectfully stated construction criticism should
not be feared or punished, even when it's done in a public forum.  Sadly
there's a lot of mediocre equipment that gets foisted upon unsuspecting
customers because no one in the company was wlling to speak up and --  
respectfully -- say, "look, this just doesn't work very well -- let's fix it
before we ship, OK?"

---Joel




Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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Well, you'd want to proofread it to the hilt, and go over it so that it
matches the company's style, that sort of thing. You wouldn't want somebody
blithely posting something like "Are product xyz is awsum dude!!!!!! I
never seen such a usefull part!!!!!!! Id recomend this for ne1 to use in
they're produx!!!!!!"

;-)

Cheers!
Rich


Re: Altium (Protel) Moves Global HQ to China
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:-)

Yeah, I wouldn't *want* that, although while reading something like that might
make me cringe, it wouldn't make unhappy with the employee who did it either.
:-)

Dave Haynie's career was in no way hindered -- and possibly even bolstered --  
after he videotaped the last day of Commodore's existence...

---Joel


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