How to write a dialog in C for RP3 running LXPanel 0.9.3 ? - wrapup

Hello all,

Thank you for all your replies. But I must say I'm *seriously* disappointed with most of what you guys replied with.

Next to nothing was put forward in direct relation to the posted question, and most all the replies where brush-offs in the form of "just do something" and "go read (everything) first".

FYI: The whole shebang turns out to be 2 rather small steps: retrieving the required package and making a small adjustment to geany (so it knows where the downloaded-and-installed stuff is).

But, even thoug I *specifically mentioned* that I'm a novice on the RP and Linux: Noone thought of mentioning what the name of needed package was*. Noone thought of mentioning how to retrieve it. Noone thought of mentioning which changes needs to be made.

*I also had to make, based on next-to-nothing, a guess for that. Luckily I guessed right.

Has anyone here *ever* installed GTK ? Or am I the very first ? Not likely, but as noone seems to know what needed to be done (other than in a general, vage sense) it sure looks like it ...

Several suggestions where made to do something, but when I asked with which program I could use and what I than needed to tell it I again-and-again got a cold shoulder: "go read the documentation".

How for gods sake ! I did not even know which program I was supposed to use, and nobody was willing to tell me ...

It also didn't help that phrases like "framework" where thrown around without being explained - and even than the meaning of them did seem to vary with the responder.

Pretty much the only straight(ish)-forward answer I've gotten is that "it would probably be a good idea" to use GTK - and even for that answer I had to battle me thru a series of "figure it out for yourself" responses.

That, and, after I had googled for myself how I could (possibly) retrieve a package, tried it and mentioned that it failed, an "but haven't you first done an 'apt-get update' first ?" reply (which I than googled and found out what it was for and that it would be a good idea to use before *any* package retrieval).

I seriously hope *none* of you guys (with an exception or two) ever gets in a teaching position, as you would effectivily kill any fun a student could possibly have in trying to learn new stuff. :-(

In the end I was, using GTK and together with quite a number of possibly related keywords, able to find bits-and-parts all over the web which, stiched together, gave me the above-mentioned two-step solution. So thank you for pretty-much nothing.

And for all those links I've been offered ? I don't think you guys realized that most of those where USELESS until I got that GTK development stuff installed. Which, from my POV, you guys effectivily refused to help with.

I guess the above isn't going to make me popular here. But if noone says it you guys *will* be harming more newbies, possibly even pushing them away from something that *should* be a lot of fun to use. That, and now I can try to release my indignation towards how you guys think you should be treating a novice - one with a rather simple, straight-forward question.

... Or was all of it just some kind of group-trolling ? Maybe a kind of hazing of new "members" ? In either case, change it. Its not funny. Not by a long shot.

Regards, Rudy Wieser

Reply to
R.Wieser
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Yes, from source with needed libraries. It's a royal pain in the ass to do that way. Package managers make it much easier. (What the packages are named, I cannot recall. I use package or web searches to figure out when I need to know.)

I've installed from source, in someting like a complexity ranking:

perl (relatively easy) X11 (relatively easy, but odd build tools) linux kernel (relatively easy, but lots of config options) gcc (relatively easy) mplayer (good at finding bugs in gcc, hence above)

firefox (but not recently, for testing patches, moderately tricky)

gimp (lots of tricky dependencies) openoffice (lots of tricky dependencies)

Generally anything that does modern font handling starts to have a lot of dependency complications. And GUI stuff has many more dependencies (even if not complicated) than non-GUI.

At the easy end of the spectrum, I've compiled trn on Android this year. There are no dependencies, but the code is old and Android is new, so some things had to be tweaked. memset() instead of bzero(), stub getpw*() code writen because Android, while Linux, doesn't have the traditional /etc/passwd stuff, and a fix for bison on Android not liking the yacc code in trn. Plus countless fixes for the sh shell existing, but not existing by the name "/bin/sh". That was fun, I did it basically to prove it could be done because of people complaining about lack of newsreader software for Android.

Elijah

------ didn't cross-compile, actually has gcc installed on his phone

Reply to
Eli the Bearded

Wtf dude. You were the one who kept trolling the other autistics when the second reply to your first post (or the 15th or so in total) had all the right info and helpful links, which I had tried to point out.

Anyway, usenet is dead, check the web forums.

formatting link

Reply to
A. Dumas

On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:15:58 +0100, "R.Wieser" declaimed the following:

Week 1: Intro to Linux command line -- emphasis on Bourne-Again Shell (bash), vim/emacs (I don't do emacs)

Week 2: Intro to Linux administration -- user accounts, groups, and privileges, package management (1 day each for Red Hat RPM and Debian DEB/APT)

Week 3: Intro to graphical desktops -- Gnome, KDE, LXDE, CDE, a few others

Week 4: Deeper history of X11 -- xlib, Xt, Athena, Motif, GTK+, Qt, WxWindow

Week 5-6 -- prerequisite being able to program in C++ [it is presumed that this means an ability in base C also]: programming "hello world" using each X11 framework, no use of "GUI Builders"

--
	Wulfraed                 Dennis Lee Bieber         AF6VN 
    wlfraed@ix.netcom.com    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
Reply to
Dennis Lee Bieber

for a long time i have had my suspicions about this thread because you seem to be a prety compentent computer user yet you have consistently wanted details at a more & more basic level, things that even the most basic beginners guide to Linux, the raspberry Pi & C programming cover at step 1

things that you would need to know long before you stared asking about programming a dialogue which would imply you already had the basic knowledge referenced above

you last rant now confirms my suspicion that this is nothing more than an extended troll

--
I'd rather just believe that it's done by little elves running around.
Reply to
alister

A few people could certainly usefully learn not to go off on irrelevant tangents. But generally, nobody knows what you don?t know, so you?re going to have be prepared to treating learning as a dialog.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
Reply to
Richard Kettlewell

Sad that.

Pretty much every reply I read was a direct answer, nearly always in the "Teach a man to fish" rather than "Give a man a fish" style.

Once you have decided to use GTK+ yes - most of us were advising you that you had a lot of choice in how to do this and giving you suggestions as to how to make that choice.

As you have found yourself once the choice is made the mechanics are fairly simple and discoverable. But if the only reply had been a set of step by step instructions that you could cut and paste and a sample program to copy then: a) You would learn nearly nothing from it b) You would get the impression that this was the one true way of doing things when in fact there's no such thing c) You wouldn't know where to go for the next steps other than back here to ask.

If each of us had provided step by step instructions like this for our favourite approach you would probably have drowned in confusion.

Personally I usually use fltk if I'm writing a GUI app, but that choice has come after using several others (going back to when Motif was new - it was simpler then there was a lot less choice pretty much Athena (ugly) or Motif (pretty)) and looking at rather more. Of course if I am modifying an existing program then I have to use whatever that program uses and RTFM.

Really everyone who replied was trying to help by painting an accurate picture of what the world of unix family[1] GUI programming is like.

The real problem here is that while the question is simple and straightforward a complete answer is not (and there are as many simple but incomplete answers as there are GUI frameworks), especially as it became very clear that you had some (very understandable) misconceptions about the way it all hangs together which many of the replies tried to clear up.

[1] The Raspberry Pi running any variant of Linux or BSD is just an example of that family from a programming perspective, no different to any other unless you explicitly work with Pi specific features like the GPIO pins.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays 
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun 
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Reply to
Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Alister,

God, I wished you would have mentioned the existance of such a guide ... I could have followed such steps and gotten a flying start into both the RPi, Linux as well as GUI programming.

And for the record, what DIDN'T you understand from me being a novice on BOTH the RPi3 AND Linux ?

At the start of this thread (pretty much) all I knew was how to turn the thing on and browse thru the menus.

... where I discovered Geany and, with the help of google, "wrote" my first 'hello world' C program and ran it from the CLI -- as Geany has a problem which blocked its F5 (execute) from functioning properly. :-(

Yes, I stumbled in *every* pitfall there is, simply because *having* a device does not come with/automaticaly gives you the knowledge needed to operate it. Why the **** do you think that I visited this newsgroup ? For a cup of tea perhaps ?

I think *you* are fuckwad, either trolling me, or not being able to remember your own tentative steps on both subjects. Or maybe you simply skipped that by having been spoonfed it (teacher, knowledgable friend).

I though I could get some basic help in starting with the thing here (evading common pitfals). Instead I get dinged for not already knowing what to do or where to start.

Just a question: If someone posting here already has to know what he's doing than 1) why whould he post here, 2) what is the reason for this newsgroup ? Just to chit-chat- about all the knowledge every one of you guys already have ? Must be getting boring rather quickly than ...

Regards, Rudy Wieser

Reply to
R.Wieser

Richard,

:-) I did. My initial question was pretty-much a "please tell me everything, I know nothing", which got narrowed down when I got more information (like when I found out that multiple graphical environments existed - GTK, Qt, etc).

The problem was when I asked for *specific* info most responses stayed completely non-comittal: "just pick one" and "go read the documentation". Not funny, not funny *at all*.

Remember me asking for what "package manager" the responder was referring to and how I would be able to ask it what already was installed ? Never got an answer, and as a result still do not know ...

Yes, I found apt-get and apt-cache (thru some googeling), but when I tried the latter I noticed it mentioned the availability of some package, but could not find it back in the cache folder. In other words, availablity does not even mean "its there", and (by that feat) much less (it think) that its installed. And while the destinction might be "obvious" to the people here, to me its (still) as thick as mud.

I encountered several more problems which I would like to have answered, but for some reason I'm rather hesitant to put a question about them here (guess why :-( ). As a result I spend hours-upon-hours using google, hoping to use the correct combination of search terms so I will stumble over the answer.

... But better that than getting frustrated over talking to people who seem to knowing the anwer, but are refusing (for whatever reason) to share it. :-(

Regards, Rudy Wieser

Reply to
R.Wieser

Most people do not learn multiple GUI frameworks. The only well-informed answer you?ll get from any individual is the one they actually know. If (hypothetically) I?ve only used GTK+, how on earth do you expect me to help you pick between GTK+ and Qt?

When you ask a question of multiple people, and get multiple answers back, the only person who can meaningfuly evaluate how those answer apply to your requirements is you.

I guess you mean in which you ask what a package manager is. But you also reveal in the *very same post* that you?ve already found it, which probably explains why nobody answered a question you?d apparently managed to answer yourself.

The rest of that thread includes people pointing you at the documentation and attempting to help debug what went wrong with your attempt to install the GTK+ dev packages.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
Reply to
Richard Kettlewell

Richard,

Easy: By mentioning how your own experiences with it are (maybe a bit of example "hello world: code too). Combine that with the experiences of people which have worked with the other environments, and a choosable picture would most likely emerge.

But your're asking a question which has never been put forward: For instance

*I* asked for a GUI framework which was already in use by my RPi3, and even offered the desktop version (lxpanel) as a reference. As it turns out that was GTK (still do not know which version, or how to figure that out though). If it would have been Qt (or anything else) I would probably have gone with that (and would have kept the sugggestion for an "easier" GTK for a later day), as I mostly first go with the default, and only later start to think about changing stuff.

The problem is I didn't, and, as a novice, I did not have any clue on which basis (pros and cons of each) to do that. *That* is what I needed you guys for, to inform me of 1) the possibilities (I've heard about three, but get the feeling that there are more) and 2) the pros and cons of those possibilities.

And to be honest, if there would have been a strong voice to use a particular environment over the already used (by the desktop) one I would probably have gone with it, nonwithstanding my "defaults first" approach.

I never did. I however asked, *WHICH* packet manager he was talking about, and how that one would divulge that "installed packages" information.

Nope. I mentioned that I found *A* packet manager. One which, and that SHOULD have been known to the readers, *doesn't* divulge the installed packages.

By the way: I have no idea how to find the message by the above ident (Using outlook express 6). Do you have a datetime and name for me ?

And, IIRC, I also replied to that that I *still* did not know how to retrieve the list of installed packages. ... which nobody responded to.

Apart from that suggestion being, at that point, a painfull regurgitation of what I got thru the whole thread, the *only* thing they did was to (again) shove me off to see if I could find the thing they needed me to find - but never mentioned by its name - in whatever lengthy, technical epistel would be displayed.

What the f*ck is *wrong* with you guys ? I mentioned specifically that I am a *novice*. To be doing my first steps - until I have the environment running - I could have used a bit more exact info.

Bullshit.

I mentioned that I assumed I could just use the already installed libraries for my own programs. The response was that I definitily needed to install an "environment" first, but with no explanation whatsoever.

In the end I installed *A* GTK+ 2 package (nobody mentioned anything in regard to a version, and I was not going to ask anymore), which luckily went without a problem. And when the "hello world" program than didn't want to compile I used google to find out what the trouble was, and added another bit of setup to the Geany editor (a reference to the library).

There was *no* problem with installing such a package. Just a problem with understanding why I should be needing to install one, when obviously the thing was already there -- otherwise lxpanel could not have displayed itself (as it depends on GTK).

Regards, Rudy Wieser

P.s. Yesterday I finished my first (second, if you also count "hello world") GUI program, a simple 6 spinner widget thing* which allows me to set the current date/time (as I mostly work offline), and which I added to be run after the desktop has booted. It even remembers the last time it was run (though I could not really find where I'm *supposed* to store such a, often changing, configuration file)

I even found how to do that without needing to sudo (one way or another) the program (for 'stime'). :-)

*would have liked to use month names in a dropdown**, but didn't find a way to retrieve the selected index, and didn't (yet) want the hassle of trying to match the returned string with a list.

** Yes, I know that there is a calendar widget. Simple stuff first, only after that works moving on to bigger things.

Ofcourse, only after I had finished it I found another website mentioning a newer, more capable (I think) GtkComboBox (as opposed to GtkCombo) ...

Reply to
R.Wieser

Quite the opposite. For instance in Dennis Lee Bieber asked you:

And what else did the command display? Problems with repositories? Network connection glitch?

That?s a pretty unambiguous attempt to diagnose what was wrong. It may not have been to your taste for some reason, but it was there.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
Reply to
Richard Kettlewell

Think what you like I will continue to post helpfully advice when I can. I in that spirit I think you need to learn to walk (follow basic RPi guides & command line apps) before trying to run (Gui programming, something I have still not tackled except in python)

--
It's easy to get on the internet and forget you have a life 
	-- Topic on #LinuxGER
Reply to
alister

And perhaps learn how to use a search engine - I find it hard to believe that someone who is supposedly not only computer literate but also a programmer couldn't manage to find a few FAQs about something as well supported as programming Linux on R-Pi. I suppose being stuck in a MSFT world encourages certain expectations about things that just don't exist elsewhere.

Reply to
Rob Morley

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