Sheet-beam tubes (6ar8, 7360, etc) as analog multipliers

Mar 31, 2008 7 Replies

Posted to two newsgroups known to be read by likely respondents ;)



The published literature on pre-solid-state electronic analog multipliers is scant except for production equipment from analog computer makers (which by now is difficult to locate). One example of a useful technique is a four quadrant electron beam multiplier described here:



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More exotic tubes with curved deflection geometries followed, however obtaining such tubes is now difficult.



Has anyone at some point tried using sheet-beam deflection tubes as were used in synchronous detectors and balanced modulator designs for analog multiplication? I imagine that using four tubes each driven by quadrant-limited amplifiers and whose outputs would be biased and summed with scaling may work within a few percent of input values based on a quick look at the characteristic curves published for these tubes. Another option would be to add a magnetic deflection yoke over the tubes to provide a proportional steering of the beam sheet in conjunction with the electro- static deflection (one of the deflection circuits could be placed in the negative feedback loop of an op-amp) to reduce the number of tubes required to two (+/-x, y; +/-x, -y).



It wouldn't take long to breadboard a test circuit for investigation, but knowing past efforts is always welcome. Surely someone has evaluated using these tubes in this fashion, even if just for kicks ;)



Michael


Two thoughts:

1: x(1 + y) - x(1 - y) = 2xy. Two beam tubes and a couple of op-amps, and you're in business. Even with tube op-amps you may use less space and have less grief from offsets than the space of your quadrant- switching amp and whatever grief you get from same.

2: There are any number of hot-rod DSP chips that'll fit into a T6-1/2 envelope, complete with ADC's, DAC's and a power supply to run off of

6.3VAC. Sealing the glass up without messing up the DSP may be a challenge, but you could always fudge and use acrylic.
Tim Wescott Control systems and communications consulting http://www.wescottdesign.com Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system? "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Just a memory from tens of years ago:

The 7360 made a decent balanced modulator, but it is, by definition, extremely sensitive for external electric and magnetic fields.

Tauno Voipio (OH2UG) tauno voipio (at) iki fi

This would be a new acme in solid-state (Fetron-style) replacements ;)

Michael

You just answered a problem thats had been nagging me for over 30 years. Now I know why the SSB transmitter I built had such an annoying hum in it.

I never thought about it being affected by a magnetic field.

Jimmie

========================================= For that reason in 1970s transceivers like Yaesu FT-400/401 the 7360 used as balanced modulator was 'packed' in a tight metal screen bonded to chassis.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

Think about a magnetically-deflected TV picture tube.

I noticed the problem, when my Eico 753 (around 1968) worked fine when the power supply was on the right side, but had a rough hum reported by other stations, if the power supply box was moved to the other flank.

Tauno Voipio (OH2UG)

You don't need a 7360 for that. An iron powder toroid will do "fine" in this respect, too.

73, Eddi ._._.
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