Micro controllers with UHF transceivers?

So you mean some NEW designs are being done with MSP430 ?

That makes sense, most likely they have MSP430 users demand, (more than any technical reason) - if I was a MSP430 user, I'd be asking the same thing.

That does not mean the existing devices are going to vanish any time soon. (Indeed, if Ti are smart, the new devices will be pin-compatible.)

We still have production design using ATF16V8BQL, and I see TI STILL make 22V10's - those are both what could be described as very much trailing-edge devices, but still in active production.

Atmel has done a similar 'common peripheral' swap between their ARM7/ARM9/AVR32 cores, and all those devices can expect long design lives.

Was TI the foundry for Chipcon, or did chipcon use a more conventional foundry ? Normally only when the volumes fall, do suppliers retire a part.

-jg

But when? Waiting since over a year now ...

Thing is, my clients need designs now, not next year.

If it comes to market.

Says "Directory Listing Denied" :-(

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Not RF-on-chip designs. There ain't no chips :-(

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Yes.

They definitely won't based on the discussions I've had. The first part will be an all-singing-all-dancing part [i.e. someone's ASIC sold to the general market]. Other versions will follow. I'd expect to see early silicon at the end of next year.

I'm not sure, didn't follow the relationship that closely.

It would help if you had specified the country in which it should operate. The frequency bands, the power levels and duty cycles vary with country or at least with continent.

You said that the range was too short on 2.45 GHz. What kind of propagation environment do you have ? Free space, lot of thick trees, indoor or what ?

In a free space environment, the capture area of an omnidirectional receiver antenna at a higher frequency can get quite small, thus the receiver signal will be weaker. Also a lot of wet trees will attenuate the 2.45 GHz signal.

On the other hand, in typical indoor situations and at the streets of a large city, there are going to be plenty of reflections and the propagation is more or less independent of the frequency. The shorter wavelength might even propagate more easily through narrow slits in air conditioning ducts etc.

Paul

As many countries as possible. Definitely US, Canada, Europe and in and around the Gulf of Mexico, other cases also Asia. That leaves 433MHz and

2.45GHz. Or frequencies below 100MHz but there aren't any integrated solutions for those.

All of the above, usually comms between a pod inside the house to equipment outside. I guess our house would be the worst case, woodframe construction with aluminum backed insulation inside the walls.

All I can say that around our house 2.45GHz does not work reliably at all.

Always good to design with what you can get :)

It takes a while to move from "new designs being done" to have actual production silicon in your hands. In another post Lewin mentins end 2008 for early silicon, being derived from someones ASIC.

A portion of the delay is engineering, and a portion is likely commercial, as the ASIC customer negotiates a 'head start'.

Indeed 'someones ASIC' is a higher risk design path, as when that large single customer moves, the volumes plummet, and that's bad news for the smaller users. Better for smaller users to back parts that have a wide user base, and moderate, but steady volumes.

Low power and fast wakeup, are not unique to the MSP430, and Silabs have new '51 devices with very fast wakeups, and very low powers. Even the present Chipcon parts spec sub uA idle powers, and operate is dominated by RF power, not core power.

So there is little technical rationale for a core change.

-jg

That comment should be taken with the appropriate sample of ionic compound :) It would probably be more accurate to say it's an ASSP which is being designed to meet some specific customer's requirements (not us), and it will be made generally available.

That end 2008 figure is also not an official figure from TI, it's just the feeling I get from the last time I talked with them about it.

Understood, that's a fairly common industry pathway. eg Atmel have a few devices like that. The Plus is you can get a market-tester-part easily, the minus is they often lack general use features, and struggle for eco-system critical mass.

-jg

Nordic has 8051 too.... I'm just developing a multi node system using it. Dirt cheap too!!! NRF905 433/868/915 freq.selectable. Loads of nice features. Development modules from South Africa about 14$ plus shipping.

Nordic's dev kit is loads of money.....

26 Rand single qty isn't exactly dirt cheap. That's still $3.70.

The 905 doesn't have a MCU, that would be their nRF24E2:

Anyhow, Nordic is not very widespread in the US. Neither Digikey nor Mouser carry them. I need something that's more available here in North America.

3000 Rand for their 24L01 eval kit? Ouch! What were they thinking?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I meant the NRF 9E5 - 433/868/915. Volume pricing is ok. That place in SA is like a Mouser.... try their authorised distributors.........

It's a strangely organized company, no link on their home page where those "authorized" dealers might be. Even Arrow doesn't carry them.

Nah, I'll stay with the mainstream manufacturers like TI. We can get their stuff almost anywhere.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

At least in Europe, the available bands would be 2.45 GHz, 433 MHz, 27 MHz and 13.56 MHz. Please note that in Europe, you might encounter

1-100 W amateur radio transmissions at the same or very close frequencies in the 433 MHz and 2.45 MHz band, so a good front end selectivity would be required. On 27 MHz 5 W CB transmissions could occur close to your frequencies and especially during the sunspot maximum, the HF frequencies may have strong signals from sources 1000-2000 km away. Also the 13.56 MHz band may have strong RFID signals.

While the omnidirectional receiver antenna capture area is small on

2.45 GHz, this is not a problem on HF/VHF frequencies, in which a miniature receiver antenna is capable of receiving the band noise, but at to lower frequencies, the problem is the transmitter antenna efficiency. When the antenna dimension goes below about 1/10 wavelength, the radiation resistance drops quite low and the transmitter antenna efficiency is quite low.

Unless your windows are coated with some heat reflecting film, the UHF signal should easily pass through the windows.

There is also 40.7MHz but I've got to brush up what's available in Europe and other areas. That band works really well for longer ranges as long as your data volume is low.

Depends on the power. We have two FRS radios (460MHz) with very short stubs. Theoretically they should be about 15cm long but they are maybe about 2cm. Yet I can talk to my wife when she is checking on a neighbor half a mile away, crystal clear voice signal. Out here that is necessary because we have a lot of wild animals running around and a call process on a cell phone takes too long when a bear barges around the corner.

Well, it should but you can't ask it to do a 75 degree turn after passing the window ;-)

100m would be fine, 10m would not.

That's why I like lower frequencies. More range, usually.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

rubbish web site, I agree

Yes, I know, they are going through very few hand-picked smaller dealers instead of widespread modern distribution. Most of my clients don't really like that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

15.432 grams, I presume.

-- One meter, to within 0.0125% accuracy (off by just under .005 inches): Three feet Three inches Three eights of an inch

Canonically yes (and nice response BTW - I used to calculate hand- loads in grams and it freaks people out), however in this case I think you should consider the "grain" to be like a "grain" of propellant in a solid rocket motor; i.e. potentially very very large.